Open Forum

I have been directing high school musicals for 27 years and every time my musical director comments on the difficulty of the music.  Over 27 years I have worked with many different music directors (at last count 12) and all of them say the same thing.

In addition, I find that some of the length of these Broadway shows are quite long. I often find myself thinking, I wish this song was shorter, or the big dance break wasn't in this song, or couldn't this show just be shorter?  

I might be alone in my feelings, but I wish MTI and Tams and R&H and everyone else would consider the value/need of creating a "high school" version of musicals.  The Junior versions are so popular and really are a great resource for so many programs throughout the world.  Those are meant for students in grades elementary to middle school. 

The next jump is to produce the Broadway show with high school students, but high school students are not necessarily that much more sophisticated, trained, or prepared to tackle the requirements of a full Broadway score.  

Every summer I direct a show at a camp for elementary and middle school. I receive a huge resource packet with prop lists, cue sheets, choreography ideas, graphic designs for publicity, rehearsal and accompaniment CD's, ways to connect the literature to other concepts, and the list goes on.  While I do not need all of it, nor use all of it, it sure is nice to have.  

Then in the fall I direct the musical for the high school.  What comes in my package? Scripts and scores.  That's it.  

Two months ago I was directing actors who were in 8th grade and had so much assistance.  Then I switch to direct 9th grade students and nada.  It is shocking to me.

So, if any of the companies that hold the rights and licensing for Broadway musicals are reading this, I for one would love to see you develop a high school version for some of the shows.  

Here's what I would like:
a. Shorter running time
b. Alter scores to be more friendly to younger musicians and singers
c. Potential for gender flexibility for some of the roles
d. Options for more high school appropriate language
e. Rehearsal CD's that actually match the score, rather than suggesting the original Broadway cast recording only to find out that the arrangements are different and the music in the score does not match the music of the recording.
f. A packet of materials that are similar to the MTI Junior versions, but are geared to the high school setting.

I think high school theatre is a huge portion of your business, right?  Probably as much, if not more, than your Junior theatre business. I would love to see you be more helpful and supportive of high school theatre.  Just because the students are a little older doesn't mean that our jobs are that much easier.  High schools are not professional theatre companies. 

If you need a panel of expert users to assist you I happen to know of a little organization that has hundreds of knowledgeable and experienced high school theatre directors who could serve as consultants for you.  Maybe you could even convene a panel at their National Conference?

Maybe I am alone in my idea, but maybe not.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------

Samuel French, Tams, and MTI all have specific "School Editions" or "High School Editions" for some (but not all titles). Miss Saigon, Rent, Chicago, Les Mis, Heathers, A Chorus Line, Sweeney Todd, and Rock of Ages are ones that come to mind. There are definitely more. I think these are probably more challenging shows that have been adjusted for content. I think they include some extra materials as well like the junior shows.

------------------------------
Becca Lillias

I'm pretty sure the "school editions" of Theatrical Rights Worldwide's shows have some of those additional resources. They're aren't as pared down as some other "junior" editions, or at least that's how it seemed when I compared the school edition of We Will Rock You with the full one. Also, everyone over there is really nice about sharing excerpts and resources.

------------------------------
Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
Theatre Department Coordinator
Fishersville VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018 11:46
From: Rebecca Lillias
Subject: High School version of musicals

Samuel French, Tams, and MTI all have specific "School Editions" or "High School Editions" for some (but not all titles). Miss Saigon, Rent, Chicago, Les Mis, Heathers, A Chorus Line, Sweeney Todd, and Rock of Ages are ones that come to mind. There are definitely more. I think these are probably more challenging shows that have been adjusted for content. I think they include some extra materials as well like the junior shows.

------------------------------
Becca Lillias

Good afternoon,

As stated above both MTI and TRW have shows for a high school.

------------------------------
Crit Fisher
Lighting/Sound Designer
New Albany High School
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018 12:23
From: Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
Subject: High School version of musicals

I'm pretty sure the "school editions" of Theatrical Rights Worldwide's shows have some of those additional resources. They're aren't as pared down as some other "junior" editions, or at least that's how it seemed when I compared the school edition of We Will Rock You with the full one. Also, everyone over there is really nice about sharing excerpts and resources.

------------------------------
Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
Theatre Department Coordinator
Fishersville VA

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018 11:46
From: Rebecca Lillias
Subject: High School version of musicals

Samuel French, Tams, and MTI all have specific "School Editions" or "High School Editions" for some (but not all titles). Miss Saigon, Rent, Chicago, Les Mis, Heathers, A Chorus Line, Sweeney Todd, and Rock of Ages are ones that come to mind. There are definitely more. I think these are probably more challenging shows that have been adjusted for content. I think they include some extra materials as well like the junior shows.

------------------------------
Becca Lillias

I realize that there are "high editions" or versions of some musicals, but do they really come with all of the wonderful additions that are included in the Junior versions?

I did the school version of Grease several years back, and for those of you who have produced Grease you know the headache that involves, but it didn't come with anything special.  I realize that is Samuel French and not one of the major musical theatre publishers, but when I produced The Lion King last year I was flooded with amazing materials.

I mean the prop list alone was a great place to start.  Does anyone else agree with me that the amount of time we spend creating the prop list is crazy?  Why does the junior version come with one, but not any other show?

And, even more valuable would be the rehearsal music CD. The rehearsal CD for the Junior versions is so valuable to everyone on the team. My choreographer, my vocal director, the music director,, the cast, and me.  Why can a junior version provide this great resource and for a high school production you have to pay extra, buy additional materials, etc.  Why can't this be included in the package?  RehearScore is the option available? Or some variation of this? So now I need to have a computer and speakers and someone who can run the program.  CD is so easy and so user friendly.  Put CD in player, hit play.  Easy.

I am just calling on the publishers and licensing houses to give more thought to how they could make producing these shows more manageable for high school staff and students.  What was the thought process that motivated everyone to get so involved in creating the Junior versions? I would like to see that same kind of energy placed on creating high school versions.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018 13:55
From: Crit Fisher
Subject: High School version of musicals

Good afternoon,

As stated above both MTI and TRW have shows for a high school.

------------------------------
Crit Fisher
Lighting/Sound Designer
New Albany High School

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018 12:23
From: Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
Subject: High School version of musicals

I'm pretty sure the "school editions" of Theatrical Rights Worldwide's shows have some of those additional resources. They're aren't as pared down as some other "junior" editions, or at least that's how it seemed when I compared the school edition of We Will Rock You with the full one. Also, everyone over there is really nice about sharing excerpts and resources.

------------------------------
Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
Theatre Department Coordinator
Fishersville VA

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018 11:46
From: Rebecca Lillias
Subject: High School version of musicals

Samuel French, Tams, and MTI all have specific "School Editions" or "High School Editions" for some (but not all titles). Miss Saigon, Rent, Chicago, Les Mis, Heathers, A Chorus Line, Sweeney Todd, and Rock of Ages are ones that come to mind. There are definitely more. I think these are probably more challenging shows that have been adjusted for content. I think they include some extra materials as well like the junior shows.

------------------------------
Becca Lillias

Original Message------

I realize that there are "high editions" or versions of some musicals, but do they really come with all of the wonderful additions that are included in the Junior versions?

I did the school version of Grease several years back, and for those of you who have produced Grease you know the headache that involves, but it didn't come with anything special.  I realize that is Samuel French and not one of the major musical theatre publishers, but when I produced The Lion King last year I was flooded with amazing materials.

I mean the prop list alone was a great place to start.  Does anyone else agree with me that the amount of time we spend creating the prop list is crazy?  Why does the junior version come with one, but not any other show?

And, even more valuable would be the rehearsal music CD. The rehearsal CD for the Junior versions is so valuable to everyone on the team. My choreographer, my vocal director, the music director,, the cast, and me.  Why can a junior version provide this great resource and for a high school production you have to pay extra, buy additional materials, etc.  Why can't this be included in the package?  RehearScore is the option available? Or some variation of this? So now I need to have a computer and speakers and someone who can run the program.  CD is so easy and so user friendly.  Put CD in player, hit play.  Easy.

I am just calling on the publishers and licensing houses to give more thought to how they could make producing these shows more manageable for high school staff and students.  What was the thought process that motivated everyone to get so involved in creating the Junior versions? I would like to see that same kind of energy placed on creating high school versions.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------

​I too agree with you John.  I don't know if we can expect all that you ask but I have been frustrated more than once by the score we received not matching the Original Broadway score we've been recommended to use.  Almost lost a choreographer over that once.  There is such amazing theater literature out there, it would behoove these companies to respond.  R&H has replied to me before that their rights are frozen because the estate owns the power to allow concessions.  It's been my hope that as MTI continues to make bank with their editions, the other companies will take note and make concessions.  I don't want more chopped up Jr shows that leave lines just to get you to the next song,  but would love the things you suggest.  (We are a middle school program and have used some full length shows.)  Tams, R&H ...please take note.

------------------------------
Valerie Scott
Drama Teacher/Director
Perimeter School
Johns Creek, Ga
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2018 06:39
From: Myndee Washington
Subject: High School version of musicals

I agree, John. The idea of the Junior shows is about educating children and parents, new to the theatre world. High school shows should have resources for emergent theatre kids. Having a score that young musicians could handle would also be fantastic. 

Myndee Washington

Music & Drama Teacher

Union Park Charter Academy

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Original Message------

I realize that there are "high editions" or versions of some musicals, but do they really come with all of the wonderful additions that are included in the Junior versions?

I did the school version of Grease several years back, and for those of you who have produced Grease you know the headache that involves, but it didn't come with anything special.  I realize that is Samuel French and not one of the major musical theatre publishers, but when I produced The Lion King last year I was flooded with amazing materials.

I mean the prop list alone was a great place to start.  Does anyone else agree with me that the amount of time we spend creating the prop list is crazy?  Why does the junior version come with one, but not any other show?

And, even more valuable would be the rehearsal music CD. The rehearsal CD for the Junior versions is so valuable to everyone on the team. My choreographer, my vocal director, the music director,, the cast, and me.  Why can a junior version provide this great resource and for a high school production you have to pay extra, buy additional materials, etc.  Why can't this be included in the package?  RehearScore is the option available? Or some variation of this? So now I need to have a computer and speakers and someone who can run the program.  CD is so easy and so user friendly.  Put CD in player, hit play.  Easy.

I am just calling on the publishers and licensing houses to give more thought to how they could make producing these shows more manageable for high school staff and students.  What was the thought process that motivated everyone to get so involved in creating the Junior versions? I would like to see that same kind of energy placed on creating high school versions.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------

I absolutely agree with you, John. After doing my first 5 Tams Whitmark musicals, all of which I loved because they are well written with beautiful scores, have name recognition, and an abundance of characters, For my last 5 shows I have switched to smaller publishers for several reasons, namely the extreme cost increase has priced Tams out of my ballpark, the difficulty in the music (after losing my original “magic maker” music director), and as my cast grew and I need more supporting roles. The Junior Shows are too short (60 min), and I don’t find the School Editions to be much cheaper, score much easier, or more supporting characters so they are not helpful for my needs. When my cast was small & my budget was bigger & packets were cheaper & my music director was spectacular, I found a show easily to fit my cast. With less money, larger cast, music director change, and high prices I now comb through hundreds of much less known shows (195 so far this summer, 300 last year & 100 the year before) to find something that I can afford, a score my music director can handle, and enough supporting roles to fit my growing cast. The perks of using these smaller shows are: line counts because a character having 2 songs doesn’t mean they have more than 20 lines, ugh!, manageable score, music that matches the CD so we don’t have to change the dances & songs the last 2 weeks when the music director arrives and says “that’s not the way it’s written”, ugh!), Prop list, 90 min shows which help the audience and we get through more of Show at each rehearsal, in longer shows the end of Act 2 often suffers, is within our budget, gender casting often allowed (4 boys, 19 girls), no deposit that we never got back in full, somehow there were always hidden “shipping” costs, scripts when ordered instead of no scripts until 2 months before, I can’t turn around a show that quick, and flexible royalty dates (one year Confirmation was moved to our show date). Every year I look at a Tams Whitmark but I know it’s just a dream: this year on my short list is Bells Are Ringing & Mame but I know I’ll go with one of the smaller 10 on my list. I live to find smaller versions of bigger shows, any suggestions?

Maria Stadtmueller
St. Augustine School
Kendall Park, NJ

Sent from my iPhone
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Original Message------

I realize that there are "high editions" or versions of some musicals, but do they really come with all of the wonderful additions that are included in the Junior versions?

I did the school version of Grease several years back, and for those of you who have produced Grease you know the headache that involves, but it didn't come with anything special.  I realize that is Samuel French and not one of the major musical theatre publishers, but when I produced The Lion King last year I was flooded with amazing materials.

I mean the prop list alone was a great place to start.  Does anyone else agree with me that the amount of time we spend creating the prop list is crazy?  Why does the junior version come with one, but not any other show?

And, even more valuable would be the rehearsal music CD. The rehearsal CD for the Junior versions is so valuable to everyone on the team. My choreographer, my vocal director, the music director,, the cast, and me.  Why can a junior version provide this great resource and for a high school production you have to pay extra, buy additional materials, etc.  Why can't this be included in the package?  RehearScore is the option available? Or some variation of this? So now I need to have a computer and speakers and someone who can run the program.  CD is so easy and so user friendly.  Put CD in player, hit play.  Easy.

I am just calling on the publishers and licensing houses to give more thought to how they could make producing these shows more manageable for high school staff and students.  What was the thought process that motivated everyone to get so involved in creating the Junior versions? I would like to see that same kind of energy placed on creating high school versions.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------

AGREED John!!!! Especially the rehearsal CD, there’s nothing worse than your cast thinking they have to sound like the Broadway numbers they have been listening too!

---------------------------------
Karin Neal
Forensics Coach and Theatre Director
Trinity Catholic Jr. Sr. High School
Hutchinson KS
---------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018
From: John Rutherford
Subject: High School version of musicals

I have been directing high school musicals for 27 years and every time my musical director comments on the difficulty of the music.  Over 27 years I have worked with many different music directors (at last count 12) and all of them say the same thing.

In addition, I find that some of the length of these Broadway shows are quite long. I often find myself thinking, I wish this song was shorter, or the big dance break wasn't in this song, or couldn't this show just be shorter?  

I might be alone in my feelings, but I wish MTI and Tams and R&H and everyone else would consider the value/need of creating a "high school" version of musicals.  The Junior versions are so popular and really are a great resource for so many programs throughout the world.  Those are meant for students in grades elementary to middle school. 

The next jump is to produce the Broadway show with high school students, but high school students are not necessarily that much more sophisticated, trained, or prepared to tackle the requirements of a full Broadway score.  

Every summer I direct a show at a camp for elementary and middle school. I receive a huge resource packet with prop lists, cue sheets, choreography ideas, graphic designs for publicity, rehearsal and accompaniment CD's, ways to connect the literature to other concepts, and the list goes on.  While I do not need all of it, nor use all of it, it sure is nice to have.  

Then in the fall I direct the musical for the high school.  What comes in my package? Scripts and scores.  That's it.  

Two months ago I was directing actors who were in 8th grade and had so much assistance.  Then I switch to direct 9th grade students and nada.  It is shocking to me.

So, if any of the companies that hold the rights and licensing for Broadway musicals are reading this, I for one would love to see you develop a high school version for some of the shows.  

Here's what I would like:
a. Shorter running time
b. Alter scores to be more friendly to younger musicians and singers
c. Potential for gender flexibility for some of the roles
d. Options for more high school appropriate language
e. Rehearsal CD's that actually match the score, rather than suggesting the original Broadway cast recording only to find out that the arrangements are different and the music in the score does not match the music of the recording.
f. A packet of materials that are similar to the MTI Junior versions, but are geared to the high school setting.

I think high school theatre is a huge portion of your business, right?  Probably as much, if not more, than your Junior theatre business. I would love to see you be more helpful and supportive of high school theatre.  Just because the students are a little older doesn't mean that our jobs are that much easier.  High schools are not professional theatre companies. 

If you need a panel of expert users to assist you I happen to know of a little organization that has hundreds of knowledgeable and experienced high school theatre directors who could serve as consultants for you.  Maybe you could even convene a panel at their National Conference?

Maybe I am alone in my idea, but maybe not.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------

Good morning all,

Have you you thought about producing two junior shows? Our local community theatre just did Once On This Island and The Jungle Book in the same evening. They build a unit set that was used for both productions. It was very well received and allowed for kids to be a part of both productions. The intermission was used to set up for the following show.

Now I know it won't work for every pairing but it may be worth the try and MTI was amazing to work with during this project.

------------------------------
Crit Fisher
Lighting/Sound Designer
New Albany High School
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2018 09:36
From: Karin Neal
Subject: High School version of musicals

AGREED John!!!! Especially the rehearsal CD, there's nothing worse than your cast thinking they have to sound like the Broadway numbers they have been listening too!

---------------------------------
Karin Neal
Forensics Coach and Theatre Director
Trinity Catholic Jr. Sr. High School
Hutchinson KS

Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2018
From: John Rutherford
Subject: High School version of musicals

I have been directing high school musicals for 27 years and every time my musical director comments on the difficulty of the music.  Over 27 years I have worked with many different music directors (at last count 12) and all of them say the same thing.

In addition, I find that some of the length of these Broadway shows are quite long. I often find myself thinking, I wish this song was shorter, or the big dance break wasn't in this song, or couldn't this show just be shorter?

I might be alone in my feelings, but I wish MTI and Tams and R&H and everyone else would consider the value/need of creating a "high school" version of musicals.  The Junior versions are so popular and really are a great resource for so many programs throughout the world.  Those are meant for students in grades elementary to middle school.

The next jump is to produce the Broadway show with high school students, but high school students are not necessarily that much more sophisticated, trained, or prepared to tackle the requirements of a full Broadway score.

Every summer I direct a show at a camp for elementary and middle school. I receive a huge resource packet with prop lists, cue sheets, choreography ideas, graphic designs for publicity, rehearsal and accompaniment CD's, ways to connect the literature to other concepts, and the list goes on.  While I do not need all of it, nor use all of it, it sure is nice to have.

Then in the fall I direct the musical for the high school.  What comes in my package? Scripts and scores.  That's it.

Two months ago I was directing actors who were in 8th grade and had so much assistance.  Then I switch to direct 9th grade students and nada.  It is shocking to me.

So, if any of the companies that hold the rights and licensing for Broadway musicals are reading this, I for one would love to see you develop a high school version for some of the shows.

Here's what I would like:
a. Shorter running time
b. Alter scores to be more friendly to younger musicians and singers
c. Potential for gender flexibility for some of the roles
d. Options for more high school appropriate language
e. Rehearsal CD's that actually match the score, rather than suggesting the original Broadway cast recording only to find out that the arrangements are different and the music in the score does not match the music of the recording.
f. A packet of materials that are similar to the MTI Junior versions, but are geared to the high school setting.

I think high school theatre is a huge portion of your business, right?  Probably as much, if not more, than your Junior theatre business. I would love to see you be more helpful and supportive of high school theatre.  Just because the students are a little older doesn't mean that our jobs are that much easier.  High schools are not professional theatre companies.

If you need a panel of expert users to assist you I happen to know of a little organization that has hundreds of knowledgeable and experienced high school theatre directors who could serve as consultants for you.  Maybe you could even convene a panel at their National Conference?

Maybe I am alone in my idea, but maybe not.

------------------------------
John Rutherford
Groves Performing Arts Company
W.E. Groves High School
Beverly Hills MI
------------------------------