Open Forum

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Following. This issue has been plaguing me for years.

------------------------------
Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
Theatre Department Coordinator
Shenandoah Valley Governor's School
VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

So I have a bunch of opinions on this topic.

If you have two great Asian actors who can play the brothers in particular, this is your only chance and pulling this off. The key really lies in those two brother being portrayed as the non-stereotyped wonderful heroes that they are. These parts can not be played by white people, there is no way for them to be played genuinely this way.

That being said, even if you have these kids, it's a real uphill battle. We were going to do this show at my school and the week before auditions, a nearby suburb had a lot of controversy hit it surrounding their high school's production of the show. I spent a few days real stressed out and doing research. Found articles and opinion pieces, including a great one from a guy considered the "Godfather of Asian American Theatre" where he says essentially "yeah, sometimes they act in a silly way but it's a musical, all the character act in a silly way. and one of the two brothers gets the girl in the end even!" But ultimately we switched to Urinetown cause I knew I wouldn't have the energy to do the work of producing a musical AND being on the defensive after three days in a row of front page articles opinions in the Boston Globe. 

The biggest issue in the show ultimately beyond that is that people also don't really have the ability to distinguish portrayal vs endorsement. The character of Mrs Meers is deeply racist. I had a group of students come talk to me about this character and the idea of "they are the villain, shows dont endorse the views of villains" seemed foreign to them, they even referenced the previous year's production of Hairspray and the character of Velma being a racist (which I now understand Hairspray has issues but not for the issue they brought up). 

And finally, the original movie is super racist and so if anyone goes "Im gonna watch this and see what it's about" they will have a cannon full of ammo. 

TL;DR The show is doable under the right circumstances but ultimately has a lot of ways in which it can be a PR disaster taking your energy to everywhere but the actual show. 

------------------------------
Joseph Gels
Theatre Teacher
Boston Latin School
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Thank you so much for such a thoughtful answer.  Your points are well-taken.  I know we all walk through this same minefield as we choose shows--so many of the classics haven't aged well, and it's exhausting to constantly have to second guess what might happen if we do a show as opposed to what the kids can learn from performing it.

Thanks again--I really appreciate your insight!

------------------------------
[Brian] [Cappello]
Shawnee Mission East HS]
Prairie Village] [KS]BrianCappello
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2022 08:14
From: Joseph Gels
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

So I have a bunch of opinions on this topic.

If you have two great Asian actors who can play the brothers in particular, this is your only chance and pulling this off. The key really lies in those two brother being portrayed as the non-stereotyped wonderful heroes that they are. These parts can not be played by white people, there is no way for them to be played genuinely this way.

That being said, even if you have these kids, it's a real uphill battle. We were going to do this show at my school and the week before auditions, a nearby suburb had a lot of controversy hit it surrounding their high school's production of the show. I spent a few days real stressed out and doing research. Found articles and opinion pieces, including a great one from a guy considered the "Godfather of Asian American Theatre" where he says essentially "yeah, sometimes they act in a silly way but it's a musical, all the character act in a silly way. and one of the two brothers gets the girl in the end even!" But ultimately we switched to Urinetown cause I knew I wouldn't have the energy to do the work of producing a musical AND being on the defensive after three days in a row of front page articles opinions in the Boston Globe. 

The biggest issue in the show ultimately beyond that is that people also don't really have the ability to distinguish portrayal vs endorsement. The character of Mrs Meers is deeply racist. I had a group of students come talk to me about this character and the idea of "they are the villain, shows dont endorse the views of villains" seemed foreign to them, they even referenced the previous year's production of Hairspray and the character of Velma being a racist (which I now understand Hairspray has issues but not for the issue they brought up). 

And finally, the original movie is super racist and so if anyone goes "Im gonna watch this and see what it's about" they will have a cannon full of ammo. 

TL;DR The show is doable under the right circumstances but ultimately has a lot of ways in which it can be a PR disaster taking your energy to everywhere but the actual show. 

------------------------------
Joseph Gels
Theatre Teacher
Boston Latin School

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 3/9/2022 11:24:00 AM
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 3/9/2022 11:24:00 AM
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Hi Brian,  

I think it all depends on how you approach those characters. 

Francis Hue, who originated the part of Bun Foo on Broadway has said that the roles of Mrs. Meers, Ching Ho, and Bun Foo were revolutionary. He thought it was important "to actually have real Chinese guys singing and speaking in their own language and meaning it, and to link their immigrant story to the same story as [the leading characters] … who come to New York to reinvent themselves."
I also had a further conversation with him regarding the character of Mrs. Meers. Here are his comments:
"Regarding Mrs. Meers ... She is not just a musical theatre villain. She is a racist, and she embodies the white supremacy and cultural appropriation of the era in the musical. I think Harriet Harris brilliantly and bravely portrayed a deeply flawed person, who gets her comeuppance in the end. Her behavior may be triggering for some, especially if audiences don't see her antics as racist and simply enjoy the way she mocks Chinese people. But isn't that what theatre does best - elicit strong reactions and make us examine ourselves and others in new ways? In the original production, Harriet's Mrs. Meers employed an accent that actually sounded more like a midAtlantic accent of the period, slathered with a heavy dose of Texas drawl. Because that's what Mrs. Meets knows about what Chinese sounds like. In contrast, Ching and Bun get to speak and sing in Cantonese and Mandarin, and they foil Meers' plot, becoming the heroes of the show. Some may object, but it's difficult to deal with racism in a show, if you don't show racists. In the instance of Millie, I wish the Chinese characters had a little more opportunity to comment on Meers' racism. But the musical does indeed let them comment, in ways that are funny and humanizing at the same time."

I think Millie can be a positive experience and a way to look at how characters are treated in stories. 

Cheers,  
Linda

------------------------------
Linda Apperson
Stage Manager and Mentor
Milwaukie, OR
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 3/10/2022 11:08:00 AM
From: Linda Apperson
Subject: RE: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi Brian,  

I think it all depends on how you approach those characters. 

Francis Hue, who originated the part of Bun Foo on Broadway has said that the roles of Mrs. Meers, Ching Ho, and Bun Foo were revolutionary. He thought it was important "to actually have real Chinese guys singing and speaking in their own language and meaning it, and to link their immigrant story to the same story as [the leading characters] … who come to New York to reinvent themselves."
I also had a further conversation with him regarding the character of Mrs. Meers. Here are his comments:
"Regarding Mrs. Meers ... She is not just a musical theatre villain. She is a racist, and she embodies the white supremacy and cultural appropriation of the era in the musical. I think Harriet Harris brilliantly and bravely portrayed a deeply flawed person, who gets her comeuppance in the end. Her behavior may be triggering for some, especially if audiences don't see her antics as racist and simply enjoy the way she mocks Chinese people. But isn't that what theatre does best - elicit strong reactions and make us examine ourselves and others in new ways? In the original production, Harriet's Mrs. Meers employed an accent that actually sounded more like a midAtlantic accent of the period, slathered with a heavy dose of Texas drawl. Because that's what Mrs. Meets knows about what Chinese sounds like. In contrast, Ching and Bun get to speak and sing in Cantonese and Mandarin, and they foil Meers' plot, becoming the heroes of the show. Some may object, but it's difficult to deal with racism in a show, if you don't show racists. In the instance of Millie, I wish the Chinese characters had a little more opportunity to comment on Meers' racism. But the musical does indeed let them comment, in ways that are funny and humanizing at the same time."

I think Millie can be a positive experience and a way to look at how characters are treated in stories. 

Cheers,  
Linda

------------------------------
Linda Apperson
Stage Manager and Mentor
Milwaukie, OR
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 3/10/2022 11:22:00 AM
From: Jessica Magers-Rankin
Subject: RE: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Thank you so much for sharing those insights! I think the problem arises in our schools where we do not have the necessary diversity in our programs. I've seen productions at schools where White students are playing the Chinese roles and it's not a good look.

 

 

Jessica Magers-Rankin

 

Theatre

Fine Arts & Media

Knoxville Catholic High School

 

Original Message:
Sent: 3/10/2022 11:08:00 AM
From: Linda Apperson
Subject: RE: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi Brian,  

I think it all depends on how you approach those characters. 

Francis Hue, who originated the part of Bun Foo on Broadway has said that the roles of Mrs. Meers, Ching Ho, and Bun Foo were revolutionary. He thought it was important "to actually have real Chinese guys singing and speaking in their own language and meaning it, and to link their immigrant story to the same story as [the leading characters] … who come to New York to reinvent themselves."
I also had a further conversation with him regarding the character of Mrs. Meers. Here are his comments:
"Regarding Mrs. Meers ... She is not just a musical theatre villain. She is a racist, and she embodies the white supremacy and cultural appropriation of the era in the musical. I think Harriet Harris brilliantly and bravely portrayed a deeply flawed person, who gets her comeuppance in the end. Her behavior may be triggering for some, especially if audiences don't see her antics as racist and simply enjoy the way she mocks Chinese people. But isn't that what theatre does best - elicit strong reactions and make us examine ourselves and others in new ways? In the original production, Harriet's Mrs. Meers employed an accent that actually sounded more like a midAtlantic accent of the period, slathered with a heavy dose of Texas drawl. Because that's what Mrs. Meets knows about what Chinese sounds like. In contrast, Ching and Bun get to speak and sing in Cantonese and Mandarin, and they foil Meers' plot, becoming the heroes of the show. Some may object, but it's difficult to deal with racism in a show, if you don't show racists. In the instance of Millie, I wish the Chinese characters had a little more opportunity to comment on Meers' racism. But the musical does indeed let them comment, in ways that are funny and humanizing at the same time."

I think Millie can be a positive experience and a way to look at how characters are treated in stories. 

Cheers,  
Linda

------------------------------
Linda Apperson
Stage Manager and Mentor
Milwaukie, OR
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------

I appreciate these insights, Linda.  Truly, one has to have a director with clarity and an ability to communicate to and with students, school board and the community at large, in order to "hold the mirror up to nature" in a way that informs, educates AND entertains.

------------------------------
Janet Van Wess
Theatre Arts Director
Liberty High School - Troupe 6644
Hillsboro, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2022 11:08
From: Linda Apperson
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi Brian,  

I think it all depends on how you approach those characters. 

Francis Hue, who originated the part of Bun Foo on Broadway has said that the roles of Mrs. Meers, Ching Ho, and Bun Foo were revolutionary. He thought it was important "to actually have real Chinese guys singing and speaking in their own language and meaning it, and to link their immigrant story to the same story as [the leading characters] … who come to New York to reinvent themselves."
I also had a further conversation with him regarding the character of Mrs. Meers. Here are his comments:
"Regarding Mrs. Meers ... She is not just a musical theatre villain. She is a racist, and she embodies the white supremacy and cultural appropriation of the era in the musical. I think Harriet Harris brilliantly and bravely portrayed a deeply flawed person, who gets her comeuppance in the end. Her behavior may be triggering for some, especially if audiences don't see her antics as racist and simply enjoy the way she mocks Chinese people. But isn't that what theatre does best - elicit strong reactions and make us examine ourselves and others in new ways? In the original production, Harriet's Mrs. Meers employed an accent that actually sounded more like a midAtlantic accent of the period, slathered with a heavy dose of Texas drawl. Because that's what Mrs. Meets knows about what Chinese sounds like. In contrast, Ching and Bun get to speak and sing in Cantonese and Mandarin, and they foil Meers' plot, becoming the heroes of the show. Some may object, but it's difficult to deal with racism in a show, if you don't show racists. In the instance of Millie, I wish the Chinese characters had a little more opportunity to comment on Meers' racism. But the musical does indeed let them comment, in ways that are funny and humanizing at the same time."

I think Millie can be a positive experience and a way to look at how characters are treated in stories. 

Cheers,  
Linda

------------------------------
Linda Apperson
Stage Manager and Mentor
Milwaukie, OR

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2022 11:23
From: Brian Cappello
Subject: Thoroughly Modern Millie

Hi All--
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I don't have time to go back and find the discussion...
We are having a really tough time deciding on a show for next year--for a variety of reasons.  Anyway, after looking at MANY shows, someone suggested Millie.  Is this show even done anymore because of the Chinese characters???  If you've done it recently, how did you approach this issue?  Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!

------------------------------
Brian Cappello
Shawnee Mission East HS
Prairie Village KS
------------------------------