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R and H

  • 1.  R and H

    Posted 09-15-2016 08:47

    I have been having a little trouble working the Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization on some rights related issues. They so far have not been especially customer-friendly. This is my first time working with them since the ownership change. I am wondering if I am an outlier of if some other high school directors have experienced this.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    333 Rampart Avenue,
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-15-2016 10:03

    I'm sorry to hear that. I'm working with them now for our spring show, and so far have not had any issues or hiccups. Are you communicating by email or talking to a rep on the phone?

    ------------------------------
    Rich Luedeke
    Blackhawk Christian Theatre
    Fort Wayne, IN



  • 3.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-16-2016 08:23

    As stated before, sorry to hear about the trouble. We worked with R&H a few years ago and I remember them being stricter with their rights than other publishers. I think it's just that they have more protocol to follow and that's why sometimes it can be unpleasant to work with them sometimes. So I don't think you're alone and good luck!

    ------------------------------
    Sara Danke
    Wisconsin Rapids WI



  • 4.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-16-2016 11:39

    I had a very similar experience working with them last year; so you're not alone! They are just not very friendly and really dont go out of there way to help you.  I had one experience where I was trying to be exceptionally nice and the gentleman on the other end sounded almost annoyed that I was trying to be friendly.  Hang in there!

    ------------------------------
    Claire LaNicca
    Theatre Director
    Cincinnati OH



  • 5.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-17-2016 08:56
    Yea, we are doing the new Cinderella this year. Customer service is seriously an issue. I feel like I am an annoyance with my questions, most of which are things I don't want to do wrong according to the contracts! Sigh. Such a shame.  


    Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.





  • 6.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 14:24
    I had a horrible experience with R and H and will do anything not to work with them again. I think someone needs to contact the corporate office and let them know customers are not willing to work with them because of their current policies resulting in revenue loss.




  • 7.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-17-2016 08:38

    Mark - 

    in 2012, when we did "The Sound of Music," we were extremely mistreated by R&H. First of all, they took over 9 weeks to process rights for us. We are an extremely small school in central NJ -- there was no news whatsoever of a revival or tour of any type in the professional world. Other publishing companies such as MTI, TRW, and Tams take about 5 days to process rights for our school.

    Secondly, we were overcharged for the extra song that is available. They never refunded us.

    Lastly, they claimed we never returned their scripts. Even with our shipping and insurance receipt as evidence, they sent a collections officer after our school's business office. 

    Our business office was able to fight the charge because eventually the collections service accepted our receipt of return.

    I will never do another R&H show again. EVER.

    There are too many other houses who are efficient,  respectful, and organized. R&H  need to up their game to compete, and they are able to get away with this treatment of customers because of what they hold. There are other shows out there! Don't patronize this business.

    LH

    ------------------------------
    Lisa Houston
    Director of Drama
    The Pennington School
    Pennington, NJ



  • 8.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-17-2016 11:28

    I was under the impression that all the big Musical licensing houses treated school productions like mild annoyances 😂

    ------------------------------
    Bret Cherland
    Hemet CA



  • 9.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-17-2016 11:53

    Is anyone from R&H reading this? Are they listening?

    Lin Manuel Miranda are you reading this? R&H handles "In the Heights".

    ------------------------------
    John Perry
    Drama Instructor
    Atherton High School
    Louisville KY



  • 10.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 09:46

    I don't know if anyone from R & H is reading this, but someone should share it with them. I attended the EdTA Chapter Conference in Dallas this past July, and R & H sponsored our lunch and gave us beautiful notebooks. They clearly have a stake in high-school productions. They need to know that they need to step up their customer service or suffer the consequences. 

    ------------------------------
    Valerie Gargus
    Director
    Northern Burlington County Reg HS



  • 11.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 15:56
    Yup. Huge problems with R&H. Very little help when I've asked questions. Processing time takes FOREVER. 

    I have had excellent experiences with MTI and Tams. (And MTI even sent my kids a free sample CD of recently released musical numbers that they usually give out at trade shows for our company party!)



    Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device





  • 12.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 19:59

    I agree!  R & H are difficult to work with for their main shows.  Their G2K show collection and those who handle the collection are actually much nicer.  Tams is another problem. Old books, very little support materials for schools and often high royalties. I look for musicals at MTI first!!! and if a show is at one of the other houses it is seriously considered in choosing a production now.  Yeah MTI!!!!

    ------------------------------
    Kathy Cannnarozzi Harris
    Theater Director - Mission Viejo HS
    VAPA Coordinator K-12
    Saddleback Valley USD
    Mission Viejo, CA



  • 13.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-19-2016 00:56

    I've never had any problems with R&H. I have had a few problems with Tams-Witmark over the years. However, I spoke to a Tams representative at EdTA Conference this past weekend, and they seem to be working hard to fix their bad name. One big thing is they won't use side scripts anymore. They have all new librettos that are beautiful. They also seem to be supporting theatre education and EdTA/ITS more. I'll be much more likely to work with them again after speaking with them.

    ------------------------------
    Nicholas Sostillio
    Director of Theatre
    Warner Robins High School
    Warner Robins GA

    Georgia Thespians Board



  • 14.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 08:58

    My experience is that TRW is the gold standard for customer service in dealing with high schools.

    I have never had any trouble with MTI and have consistently found them to be very helpful and friendly.

    I wrote off Tams-Witmark a few years ago but I understand that they are trying hard and getting better.They will have to be willing to complete a w9 for my treasurer's office before I use them again.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    333 Rampart Avenue,
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570



  • 15.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-19-2016 19:05

    I must report that I received a very friendly e-mail from Tams-Witmark that included their current w9 form. They told me times have changed and so far I am a believer.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    333 Rampart Avenue,
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570



  • 16.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 08:11

    I can Say that I have not had any issues with R&H the last 2 years we did Oklahoma, Cinderella, and this year we are doing Once Upon a Mattress and I have had very little trouble with them.  We will see this year because I ordered the perusal score and script this year and they sent everything early.  So I will see if they take it off the invoice.   

    ------------------------------
    Charles Puetzer
    Stage manager
    Michigan City Area Schools
    Michigan City IN



  • 17.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 08:32

    I did a production of Sound of Music at my previous school. We never took the orchestrations out of the box because our conductor had a family emergency and did the show with piano instead. I got billed to replace several of the orchestra books because they were so badly marked up. I explained that the books were never used and they told me I was still liable because it was my responsibility to look at them and make sure they were cleaned before returning. I thought they were supposed to send them to use cleaned!

    ------------------------------
    Thomas Peters
    Theatre and Speech Teacher
    The Summit Country Day School
    Cincinnati OH



  • 18.  RE: R and H

    Posted 02-08-2017 08:49
    I want to add my two cents's worth to this conversation with the hopes that R &H is listening.  Over the past 35 years of directing, I have used all of the licensing companies mentioned previously with great success, even R & H.  This year, is another story.  Our small school is also producing Cinderella for our musical on the first weekend of March.  Because of winter break and the Illinois High School Theatre Festival the first week of January, I have auditions before Christmas.  Therefore, we need our scripts.  However, R & H would not send them a week earlier without charging extra.  Because I feared they would be delivered to school with no one there to receive them, I had to have them sent to my house.  I was angry about this because basically, I was only given 8 weeks.  I asked if they really thought that a high school can audition and rehearse a quality production in only 8 weeks? Not us.  All other companies have always been very accommodating.  Then, when I questioned why we did not have a conductor's score (only piano), I was told that was all that is available.  Once again, not very accommodating for high schools, especially a small school like ours where my leads are also playing sports and involved with other co-curricular activities.
    As much as I love the classics that R & H licenses, I, like many others, will look first at MTI and TRW first for next year.

    ------------------------------
    Mary Midiri-Davis
    Illiopolis IL
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-18-2016 09:34

    This is so disheartening to hear! We had a similar experience with Samuel French! We changed our musical because of it! We are working with MTI now (which is wonderful! I've never had an issue) but it would be nice to be able to all the shows that fit our kids- not just ones where the company enjoys our business.

    ------------------------------
    Brooke Jackson



  • 20.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-19-2016 00:11

    Thank you for starting this discussion.  I have been EXTREMELY unhappy with R&H this fall.  We are a school of about 350 students in south central Kansas producing Cinderella this fall.  They have been very slow in answering questions and processing our application.  When I do speak with a representative, his costumer service is not very helpful or friendly.  I have always held R&H in high esteem as I love their shows and have felt they were very reputable.  I have wanted to talk with a manager or corporate person about my negative experience.  It may be a very long time before I consider using this company again.

    Last year, I had an absolutely wonderful experience working with Playscripts, Inc. on one of their musicals.  If only all of the musical licensing companies handled their costumer service the way Playscripts does!

    Thanks again for this discussion.

    ------------------------------
    Lex Rhoadarmer
    Clearwater High School Drama
    Clearwater KS



  • 21.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-19-2016 09:42

    I've had horrible experiences with R&H in the distant past and in the recent past.  Many years ago we did Sound of Music and even though we didn't use all of the orchestrations - the music we did use was erased and cleaned - we were billed for the music cleaning that we DIDN'T use.  I thought they were supposed to check those things before they are shipped to new customers.

    Last year we did Cinderella, returned the scripts in one box and the orchestrations in another, both left the school on the same day.  Both insured, both tracked.  Scripts made it but the orchestrations didn't.  My school district and them are battling who is going to pay the replacement.  I'm almost convinced that my box of orchestrations are sitting somewhere in their warehouse unchecked, or they sent my box to someone else without checking it in.  This is after my district people called UPS, showed them that both boxes were sent at the same time, insured, etc.

    I avoid R&H at all cost - along with Samuel French (for different reasons).  However, occasionally there are shows that are perfect for the available talent.  MTI is 150% better at customer service than R&H and/or SF.

    My two cents. 

    ------------------------------
    Mike Hancey
    Musical Theatre, Drama, Theatre Guild, & Theater Manager
    Laramie High School
    Laramie, WY



  • 22.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-25-2016 22:28

    I have had the same problems with R and H.  We ordered an advance rental for "Joseph...Dreamcoat", it didn't come and we were not reimbursed.  Then when we did Mattress they claimed we didn't send back all of the rentals!  A parent sent them off for me and after a month considered it to be delivered, so she got rid of the tracking #.  Then I get a bill 2 months after our show saying we owe over $1600!!!   So when I saw on here that they did the same thing to them, I say beware of R and H.

    ------------------------------
    Kelly Melton
    Sumter SC



  • 23.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-26-2016 07:22

    I haven't used R & H in a long time, but I will say I avoid Samuel French as much as I can, especially with musicals.  Using their online order system it is difficult to order extra copies of music or piano scores and when it comes time to return everything, you actually have to send in an application/form in order to receive your deposit back.  MTI just automatically sends you the check a couple weeks afterwards. Many years ago, I didn't realize this and lost out on a refunded deposit because it was not applied for in time. 

    ------------------------------
    Holly Thompson
    Worthington OH



  • 24.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-19-2016 11:57

    I felt compelled to chime in here. I am a thirty-five year veteran teacher and director of musicals. I have to say without any reservation that Theatrical Rights Worldwide and MTI are high school and Jr. high school's  most user friendly. Theatrical Rights Worldwide wins hands down. I always feel one-hundred percent supported and encouraged by TRW and MTI. I really try to avoid ALL the others. They make it a real challenge for schools. As we train tomorrow's audiences, "All the Others" have no ideas what they are mission out on. 

    ------------------------------
    Donnie Bryan
    Department Chair for Visual and Performing Arts
    Nashville TN



  • 25.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-20-2016 10:44

    We have also had great difficulty with R&H.  We did the new Cinderella last year and it took almost three months to get the approval for rights.  We actually had to delay auditions because of that.  There were errors in the billing, we didn't get everything we requested, and above all, they were incredibly rude everytime we called with a questions.  As another poster said, most of those were questions about trying to comply with our contract.  (Which among other things, did not allow us to use the title of the show to advertise off the school grounds.  I've never heard of such a thing before.  How in the world do you advertise if you can't use the name of the show???  And by the way, the closest tour location was 4 hours away and two months previous.)  

    We have previously done Footloose, Sound of Music, and Oklahoma that are all with them.  The only one that went smoothly and had pleasant interactions with them was Oklahoma.  If given a choice, I avoid their shows.  Same thing for Samuel French.  With both companies, it's not the material that's the problem, it's the customer service.  

    ------------------------------
    Amy Bussey
    Stuarts Draft VA



  • 26.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-29-2016 08:12

    I am so happy to hear these companies reaching out.

    I too have had such nightmare experiences with Samuel French, that whenever I do a show with them (which I try to avoid, especially a musical) I keep a permanent file of every single communication. It seems they lack organization. I was stuck paying a bill that was five years old (before I had become the drama director). The previous director knew he had paid it, but no longer had any proof.  Every issue seems to be about non-payment of something that was actually paid. In the past, when trying to talk to them, the representative was curt and rude, but that could be how some New Yorkers are. When I had an issue for a show I produced of theirs, having the Booster Treasurer send copies of cancelled checks to prove payment solved the problem.

    For these companies that seem disorganized: Keep copious records, and keep them for years.

    ------------------------------
    Valerie Farschman, Drama Director
    MLS Theatre Company, Troupe 1422
    Marion L Steele High School
    Amherst, Ohio



  • 27.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-21-2016 12:59

    Where are the representatives from the companies who are being discussed/maligned in this forum?  You'd think they would want to chime in and at least attempt to defend themselves???  

    Maybe they are busy providing such great customer service that they are too busy...      chirp chirp chirp

    ------------------------------
    [Drama] [Dan] []
    [Drama Teacher/Director]
    [Dublin Coffman HS]
    [Dublin] [Ohio]



  • 28.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-21-2016 13:23

    We are always disappointed to read that a customer has had a less-than-satisfactory experience with our company. We value all of our customers, and continue to examine our policies and procedures to improve our customer’s experiences.

     

    We appreciate your feedback on this forum, and have already begun reaching out to each of you directly in order to discuss your complaints. If anyone wants to reach out to us directly, please contact me directly.

    Christina Ritter

    Director of Amateur Licensing

    Christina.ritter@rnh.com

    Thank you.

    ------------------------------
    Christina Ritter
    Director, Amateur Licensing
    Rodgers and Hammerstein
    New York NY



  • 29.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-22-2016 06:44

    Speaking only for myself, I have now heard from representatives from Tams-Witmark and R&H. 

    Tams-Witmark seems sincere in their attempts to right the ship.

    We'll see about R&H. I have a telephone appointment with them today.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    333 Rampart Avenue,
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570



  • 30.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-22-2016 09:32

    R&H contacted me as well.  I've been busy but I hope to chat with them in the near future.

    Maybe things are changing......

    ------------------------------
    Mike Hancey
    Musical Theatre, Drama, Theatre Guild, & Theater Manager
    Laramie High School
    Laramie, WY



  • 31.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-23-2016 11:54
    Me too! I have not had a second to respond... but nice! 
    Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.





  • 32.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-23-2016 07:19

    Yesterday I had a friendly and Frank telephone conversation with the amateur leasing director at R&H. She asked questions about how they can better serve high school theatre directors and seemed sincere in making changes for the better. She said she intended to reach out to everyone else who also expressed concerns. Finally, she told me she was glad I posted my concern on this board. Now I am, too, even though I was hesitant at first.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    333 Rampart Avenue,
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570



  • 33.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-23-2016 11:05

    Hurrah! Looks like things are moving in the right direction. We used R&H last year for 'Evita', and for my part, they were pretty good in handling all our questions and any other issues we had. It was sad to read how it wasn't just one isolated incident, but several. We used Tams W several years ago for Wizard of Oz, and found them to be decent, plus it was my first ever encounter with licensing, and they were although a little brusque fairly patient with me after I explained I was a noob.

    Haven't had the joy of TRW yet, but yes, MTI has been on the whole positive. One thing to think about here that I'm glad was brought up: for whatever reason, sometimes the orchestration box of scores is never opened or used. First time I did this, I didn't bother to check the box and its contents, and the scripts themselves. When I returned them, we were hit up for a missing couple of books. The company in question was extremely gracious, after a couple of emails back and forth, and let me off the 'missing' books. One thing I learned was to make sure I pay for decent postage (if the books were indeed lost, it would have been in the mail), and the other was to take everything out of the box, photograph it, meticulously log every single item, double check for pencil markings in the books, and double check the small print regarding rentals. I wish there was an option for us to purchase rights for a photocopy license, rather than having to deal with bulky boxes and returns and all that. I am so grateful that it's starting to move in that direction, with companies such as Theatrefolk who give you the option of buying physical copies or a photocopy license.

    Does Tam W insist still that you have to have live accompaniment or its a no-go? I was super lucky to have an exceptionally talented pianist accompany us for Wizard of Oz, but otherwise it is very difficult for us to have live orchestration.

    ------------------------------
    Phillip Goodchild
    Theatre Arts Instructor/Assistant Department Head of English
    Ruskin FL



  • 34.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-24-2016 09:37

    I've been contacted by Samuel French twice as well to discuss issues! I was unable to talk this week but I will next week! I really hope this is a positive change for everyone! We are educators and we want to do what is best for our kids. I would hate to avoid a show that would grow my actors bc of customer service! 

    ------------------------------
    Brooke Jackson



  • 35.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-26-2016 10:07

    Power to the show people! Thanks for validating that theatre educators are a vital link in building the industry of tomorrow. Our students are tomorrow's theatre professionals and consumers. Our ability to pass the torch effectively lies in such candid exchanges and positive problem solving among all practitioners of the craft, in their various roles. Thanks to the licensing agents and our colleagues for this exchange.

    ------------------------------
    Deborah Frauenholz
    Drama Director
    Avonworth High School
    Pittsburgh, PA



  • 36.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-27-2016 14:58

    Well, it's sad to hear that I'm not alone in this R & H struggle. I've been trying to finalize the licensing agreement for an upcoming production since the end of the last school year. I was hoping to have the pre-production package to work on it over the summer, but here we are near the end of September and it's still not finalized. I first tried to discover the problem by checking the status on their website. It said that I had cancelled the booking. I contacted the company and received an email reply, in a timely manner, that said that they weren't sure why the website said that it was cancelled and that they were just awaiting the paper work (which had been sent over two months earlier). After that, any contact with R & H has me trying to be a detective trying to figure out what else needs to be done. They respond in brief cryptic emails that don't help. When I discuss the problems with our district's business office, they are simply left speechless as to why this hasn't been taken care of already. I wish that I could say that this was the first time that I've had a problem with R & H, but it's the third. I don't have these problems with any other company. As much as I'd love to do works of the artists they represent, I'm not sure that it's worth all the extra hours of work.

    ------------------------------
    Paul Vega
    Theatre Arts Director
    Dougherty Valley High School
    San Ramon CA



  • 37.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-27-2016 17:34

    I have also avoided using R&H after a bad experience with them about 6 years ago. I've stayed exclusively with TRW or MTI and had no problems. I'd appreciate it if anyone who is contacted chimes in to let everyone have an update on how people are treated

    ------------------------------
    Shira Schwartz
    Chandler Unified School District
    Chandler AZ



  • 38.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-28-2016 06:36
    So far so good. My rights problems were cleared up by the end of the day.

    --
    Mark A. Zimmerman
    Theatre Director,

    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    470 Castle Blvd
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    330-761-3275

    FirestoneTheatre.com






  • 39.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-30-2016 11:41

    Oddly enough, two things have happened since I posted in this thread:

    1. TWM has contacted with a very kind email hoping we will return to using their shows. It's nice to have gotten the email, and it did lead me to browse their collection again for the first time in a long time.

    2. Advance copies of libretto and PC score came in for The King and I, which we have licensed starting in December- I have *never* received materials so early. Typically, I announce a show in May, and by Sept/Oct the district gets around to cutting the check... and then nothing until the rental books arrive (usually the week before/week of auditions). I've resorted to pilfering other school scores and friends libraries to have something in advance. Maybe this is how it's supposed to go, but MTI and R&H have never sent these out before.

    So anyway, after a fiasco with R & H two years about (over The Sound of Music), they appear to be putting their best foot forward for us on King and I. My thanks to them!

    ------------------------------
    Bret Cherland
    Hemet CA



  • 40.  RE: R and H

    Posted 09-28-2016 06:34
    I suggest contacting the director of amateur licensing directly.

    --
    Mark A. Zimmerman
    Theatre Director,

    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone High School
    470 Castle Blvd
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    330-761-3275

    FirestoneTheatre.com






  • 41.  RE: R and H

    Posted 01-31-2017 10:23
    I'm going to bring this post back since I'm very frustrated with R&H. We needed another copy of an instrument part and left numerous messages for them. We have heard nothing back and as a result, will not have a trumpet 1 part for our show this week of Cinderella. The bookkeeper also spent way too much time badgering them to get a W-9 (or whatever tax form we needed). I look forward to never working with them again.

    ------------------------------
    Ken Buswell
    Drama Teacher
    Peachtree City, GA
    http://mcintoshtheater.org/
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: R and H

    Posted 02-07-2017 21:58
    This is unfortunate. I have had a good experience so far with this production. Sorry you are not.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone Community Learning center
    460 Castle Blvd
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570

    mzimmerm@apslearn.org
    ------------------------------