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  • 1.  New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-19-2018 10:30
    Edited by Ginny Butsch 02-22-2018 10:07
    I teach in a beautiful 1920's auditorium that had become rundown. We recently had $672,000 donated to restore the space. My principal has not included me in any of the talks regarding the use of the monies. What few brief snippets of conversation with him have led me to believe he is looking into an "ethernet" system of light management. He says there will be no lighting board console and everything will be controlled by computer. I am woefully lacking in knowledge on this subject in general but have begun to read and research to better understand it all. What I read is that if you have limited funds and a small to medium space an ethernet system is a waste of money. He has already built a small open space in the balcony for a light and sound control area which blocks 3/4 of the view from our existing sound and light booth. He says we won't be using the old booth anymore and when I pointed out there was no way to secure items in the open booth he said everything would be run by computer and would be locked away in cabinets in that area. I am at a complete loss as to what to do and what is going on. Any advice or help?

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    Debra Hubbard-Pastore
    Theatre Arts teacher
    Salisbury NC
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  • 2.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-19-2018 11:00
    Look for another teaching position. Honestly, any administrator that puts so little trust in the theatre teacher when major work is being done on their space should be made aware of the harm they are doing.

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    John Perry
    Drama Instructor
    Atherton High School
    Louisville KY
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  • 3.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-19-2018 16:11
    Thanks for your show of support... I am certainly feeling the frustration you have articulated. I am only a few years from retiring in a district that has only two programs in it's entirety so I am here to stay..   lol.

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    Debra Hubbard-Pastore
    Theatre Arts teacher
    Salisbury NC
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  • 4.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-19-2018 21:27
    Just doing some preliminary research, here's what I would recommend:

    -the system could be a mix of DMX and Ethernet, which allows for daisychaining (one of the most important things that DMX can do)

    -I would ask why a computer of the administrator.  If it's for cost, it provides a cheaper alternative, but lacks the ability to do what a dedicated lighting console can do.  It won't be as intuitive, as there won't be as much tactile input.  And, regardless of input method, it will not be industry standard, leaving your students at a disadvantage.

    -Computers have a shorter lifespan than a lighting console

    -Any computer or console needs to be easy to train students, teachers, and technicians on.  A computer isn't as easy as it seems.  If a teacher just needs to turn on something on, and fade up a concert submaster, this will be much less time intensive than logging in, launching a program, and then getting into a submaster.

    -A laptop won't have a big enough screen to work with, and so you'll likely need a larger monitor(s) to work with.  They can't be locked away easily.  You might also find that you need a more powerful computer, and thus a desktop that can't be moved.

    -Open booths are also loud for audience members who may be near them.  When stage managers are calling cues, they become distractions to audience members.

    -We have an open window to our sound board, and we've had students unplug things from the back of the board, just because.

    -With an open booth, how is he proposing to do sound?  There could be dozens of inputs, plus output for sound.  Amps, wireless receivers, audio adjustment.  That certainly can't be secured my moving it in and out of a space each time.

    -What about projection?  It would be nice to have a space for that, and that will need a large desktop computer to do well (lots of images and video), which also can't be moved.

    -Moving equipment regularly is more likely to result in damaging the equipment, than if it can stay put.

    -Looking at specs for the ETC Ion lighting board, it can do both ethernet and DMX.  Maybe there could be a compromise to help him feel like he's getting what he wants, and you're serving the students with a good console.

    -Why can't the current booth be refitted?  If it's falling apart, it may need to be cleaned out and redone.  I'd start here to figure out why.  This seems like this may help you figure out why.  Why a computer?  Why ethernet?  Why an open booth?  These are valid questions that may need to be tackled over the course of several meetings.  If you have a direct supervisor, I would go to them first to see if they could offer any support.  I'd include other performing arts teachers/users of the auditorium, and IT to talk about why you need good, dedicated equipment.

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    Sydney Thiessen
    Fine & Performing Arts Coordinator and Technical Director
    Reynolds High School
    Troutdale OR
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  • 5.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-20-2018 08:20
    If you walk in with legitimate concerns and proposals, why won't he talk to you?  I have had my fair share of being ignored by administrators, but I was at least able to talk at them.

    Are other teachers (band, choir, orchestra, etc.) involved?

    If pushing comes to shoving, bring in parents.

    ------------------------------
    [William] [Myatt] [Director of Theatre]

    [Pleasant Valley High School]

    [myattw@pleasval.k12.ia.us][563-332-5151][Bettendorf][IA][USA]
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  • 6.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-21-2018 06:38
    From only seeing this side of the story,

    Many manufacturer's are pushing Network systems and all LED fixtures because someone has told them that is the thing to do.

    From a dependability standpoint, I am a fan of dedicated dimming and control, yes you have 675,000 now, but what will you have ongoing for replacement of the computer in 5 years or LED fixtures in 10, with technology comes obsolescence.

    If your administrator won't listen what is next, them setting your seasons.

    Your space should meet your current and potential future needs for the next 20 to 25 years which is the life of a system. It should not be more than you expect or might wish to use.

    Now they may have a consultant involved in the project which may be driving it towards a net system as well.

    I wish I could say more, but am outside looking in without being able to hear the entire conversation.

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    Jerry Onik
    V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
    Omaha NE
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  • 7.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-27-2018 19:18
    Imagine that, a principal is trying to teach YOU!  OMG, the same old story...no respect.  They get paid more, so they think they know more. 

    So, you have two choices (maybe more). 
    1) Just keep asking questions. Play along. Say you just need to know as much as possible so that you can "hit the ground running." Then, drop your comments. Maybe put them in writing--just short notes. Maybe ask: "Who is going to put away the computer and who is going to hook it up every day? (Is that how it works for the principal at home? Hey, I don't even use my wife's computer, because I get blamed for every little glitch for weeks afterwards. The school has an IT person already, right?) Be enthusiastic and ask to meet the amazing architect--the wonderful consultant--the terrific supplier. Ask for advance training and for funding to see the other projects where all this wonderful stuff is already working--just to be able to hit the ground running. 

    2) In reality, the game is probably over. They hired a consultant or the donor "suggested" an architect or vendor. That's why the principal "knows" so much. So, wait until you get in and treat the space like you just got hired. It's a good thing to have a space and equipment. Be amazed. Then say: "This is so amazing. We're going to have build better sets and costumes, right? With all this amazing technology, we're going to need a TD, right? So what's the budget going to be now? Can you get the donor to start a production endowment?" Want to be thankful and ask whether the donor has seen your work. Will you meet them at the "reopening?"

    And, if they hired you, they like your work. Enjoy that. Because, I'll tell you a secret, someone else will like it, too. We like to think there are not free agents in the world of educational theatre. Wrong!  Do the great theatre that you know you are capable of, create an enviable resume, and take it someplace else where they WANT TO LISTEN TO YOU. Or, maybe better, if you are hooked on the community, the eager beaver principal will use this project to move up or away. Break a leg.

    --
    Professor Thomas C. Hird, Theatre and Dance
    Director of the School of Arts and Media
    Cal State East Bay
    510-885-4813
    FAX 510-885-4748





  • 8.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-27-2018 21:23
    The sad part of this situation is to think that a grand old space became faded to the point it needed so much money to improve. Others are saying that this fading aspect of a theatre venue makes the case for a different approach than what your principal is hooked on. Whoever operates it, you or others in the future, will soon learn that technology doesn't just wear out, it becomes obsolete. I was lucky to obtain an expensive computer controlled entry security system for a technology lab. Great records on which students were getting their work done or not. Wonderful security. I found out why. We had to keep feeding the outdated computer because the manufacturer skipped updating the software to keep up with ever changing operating systems. All their actual paying customers were perfectly happy to pay to replace. I ended up going back to keyed entry. Raise your hand if you are keeping an old computer because it is the only thing that will run something you use every day.

    So, a dedicated light board should last longer because no one will be fooling around with the operating system that will really be the killer of the computer. The school will pay for the software updates and eventually have to replace both the hardware and software sooner. Then again, the principal loves the idea of an in-house control point so much that you'll probably have to replace whatever is there sooner than later anyway. We even had a digital projector stolen, before everyone went home, that was chained to a scaffold. You could be lucky, only the shadow knows.

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    Tom Hird
    Hayward CA
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  • 9.  RE: New Lighting System Recommendations

    Posted 02-23-2018 14:22
    Edited by Crit Fisher 02-28-2018 09:25
    We have an ETC ION,

    I use both traditional DMX and then ether to nodes on the electrics with DMX outputs. At the end of the day, you need to assert yourself and get involved.

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    Crit Fisher
    Lighting/Sound Designer
    New Albany High School
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