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I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

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Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

I have taught in several schools and districts over the course of my career (in both dance and theatre). At every school I have worked at the music director handled the vocals, the theatre director was responsible for all design and directing, and the dance department was (supposed) to be responsible for choreography. I'll admit that this didn't always work out. I've had to pretty much handle everything on my own in the past. I prefer when it is separated because there is so much to handle for a musical. 

That being said, unless the vocal director is also a theatre teacher, I think that the overall directing belongs with you. While vocal or music directors have a very specific skill set, so do you. If your vocal director is also a trained thespian, and you are comfortable not directing, I'd say why not. If, however, he or she is not trained beyond the musical aspect I don't believe it is appropriate to allow someone else to direct. The reality is that, as the director of theatre at your school, you will be held accountable for all productions the department produces. It won't matter if you directed it or not. What sort of fall back might you encounter if things do not go well and you didn't direct it? Will your choice be called into question?

Have you asked vocal teacher how he or she feels about the current arrangement? Are you sure that he or she wants to be directing the entire thing?

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Shira Schwartz
Chandler Unified School District
Chandler AZ
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

When I was teaching and directing, when we did musicals, I directed.  The music director was either a music teacher or, as was more often the case, someone we hired (and we hired a choreographer as needed).  The idea of a music teacher/vocal director stage directing (unless they are also a trained theatre director) is completely nonsensical--even though unfortunately it happens.  For some reason, there often is an assumption that anyone can direct a play.  But just as none of us would think we could music direct a show unless we had music training, why would anyone assume that someone without theatre training could stage direct?  It's not a good situation for the non-director who's forced to direct--in essence, they're being set up to fail--and it's definitely not going to be the learning experience it should be for the students.

Cheers,
Jonathan

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Jonathan Dorf
Playwright/ Co-founder of YouthPLAYS/ Co-chair of The Alliance Of Los Angeles Playwrights
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

I agree with Jonathan. I once saw a production of Oliver directed by a music teacher/choir director. The cast was good, costumes and set great. And the kids came out for Food. Glorious Food, and got into choir formation to sing it. In fact, every number was like that. Soloists, including Fagin and Nancy, came to a mic and sang. What a lost educational opportunity for those kids. And the audience missed out on all the great possibilities too.

Music teachers do music. Theater Directors direct!

------------------------------
Ron Wells
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-07-2015 05:43
From: Jonathan Dorf
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

When I was teaching and directing, when we did musicals, I directed.  The music director was either a music teacher or, as was more often the case, someone we hired (and we hired a choreographer as needed).  The idea of a music teacher/vocal director stage directing (unless they are also a trained theatre director) is completely nonsensical--even though unfortunately it happens.  For some reason, there often is an assumption that anyone can direct a play.  But just as none of us would think we could music direct a show unless we had music training, why would anyone assume that someone without theatre training could stage direct?  It's not a good situation for the non-director who's forced to direct--in essence, they're being set up to fail--and it's definitely not going to be the learning experience it should be for the students.

Cheers,
Jonathan

------------------------------
Jonathan Dorf
Playwright/ Co-founder of YouthPLAYS/ Co-chair of The Alliance Of Los Angeles Playwrights
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

As a music person who taught at a small high school before moving out of the area, I had to be the director and musical director for many of our shows. I may not have been the best director, but I learned with my kids, sought out information, and took many notes when we went to the state festival. This lead to the contest play placing in the Top Outstanging One-Act Competition two years in a row. I understand that people with theatrical degrees may be better at directing, but it is insulting to assume that every school has the means to hire out for every position they need. Some of us take it as a learning opportunity to better ourselves and our students. As far as the original post: I would ask the vocal teacher about their experiences directing. They may have some background in theatre that we are unaware of. If that is not the case, offer to help. I wouldn't say the production is "operating without a 'director'." Its insulting to the vocal teacher. They are probably doing the best they can and are unaware of your experiences directing. ------------------------------ Amy Holliday Ashburn VA ------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-07-2015 10:49 From: Ron Wells Subject: Directing straight and musical shows I agree with Jonathan. I once saw a production of Oliver directed by a music teacher/choir director. The cast was good, costumes and set great. And the kids came out for Food. Glorious Food, and got into choir formation to sing it. In fact, every number was like that. Soloists, including Fagin and Nancy, came to a mic and sang. What a lost educational opportunity for those kids. And the audience missed out on all the great possibilities too. Music teachers do music. Theater Directors direct! ------------------------------ Ron Wells ------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-07-2015 05:43 From: Jonathan Dorf Subject: Directing straight and musical shows When I was teaching and directing, when we did musicals, I directed. The music director was either a music teacher or, as was more often the case, someone we hired (and we hired a choreographer as needed). The idea of a music teacher/vocal director stage directing (unless they are also a trained theatre director) is completely nonsensical--even though unfortunately it happens. For some reason, there often is an assumption that anyone can direct a play. But just as none of us would think we could music direct a show unless we had music training, why would anyone assume that someone without theatre training could stage direct? It's not a good situation for the non-director who's forced to direct--in essence, they're being set up to fail--and it's definitely not going to be the learning experience it should be for the students. Cheers, Jonathan ------------------------------ Jonathan Dorf Playwright/ Co-founder of YouthPLAYS/ Co-chair of The Alliance Of Los Angeles Playwrights Los Angeles CA ------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43 From: Kim Silverman Subject: Directing straight and musical shows I am the newly appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals? ------------------------------ Kim Silverman Director of Theatre The Grier School Tyrone PA ------------------------------

Thank you. I would still love to hear more information from other directors Re: director vs musical director directing musicals. I am trying to put together an argument. Thanks, again. ------------------------------ Kim Silverman Director of Theatre The Grier School Tyrone PA ------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-07-2015 05:43 From: Jonathan Dorf Subject: Directing straight and musical shows When I was teaching and directing, when we did musicals, I directed. The music director was either a music teacher or, as was more often the case, someone we hired (and we hired a choreographer as needed). The idea of a music teacher/vocal director stage directing (unless they are also a trained theatre director) is completely nonsensical--even though unfortunately it happens. For some reason, there often is an assumption that anyone can direct a play. But just as none of us would think we could music direct a show unless we had music training, why would anyone assume that someone without theatre training could stage direct? It's not a good situation for the non-director who's forced to direct--in essence, they're being set up to fail--and it's definitely not going to be the learning experience it should be for the students. Cheers, Jonathan ------------------------------ Jonathan Dorf Playwright/ Co-founder of YouthPLAYS/ Co-chair of The Alliance Of Los Angeles Playwrights Los Angeles CA ------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43 From: Kim Silverman Subject: Directing straight and musical shows I am the newly appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals? ------------------------------ Kim Silverman Director of Theatre The Grier School Tyrone PA ------------------------------

I have worked in two different high schools in the same district and with three different choir teachers. I have always been in charge of directing the musical with varying degrees of help from the choir teacher. One of the schools in our district eliminated their Theatre teacher position after the teacher transferred to another school. The choir teacher convinced admin that he could run a musical theatre class and direct the musical even though he had a) never performed in a theatrical production b) never done any sort of tech for a theatre production and c) never been involved in a theatre production other than as a music director. The results were basically terrible and the school no longer does any sort of theatre. It seems odd to me that there is an assumption that directing does not take a specialized skill set. It also seems strange to have the position and not have you direct the musical. If you are there to be the theatre director, why wouldn't t you direct any theatrical production? My current choir director does not even do my music direction because, as she says, "it's not choral music." Musicals have a very different, brighter sound and a lot of choral directors don't like it or want to do it.

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Heather Brandon
Bakersfield CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 3/9/2015 9:57:15 AM
From: ksilverman@grier.org
Subject: RE: Directing straight and musical shows

Thank you. I would still love to hear more information from other directors Re: director vs musical director directing musicals. I am trying to put together an argument. Thanks, again. ------------------------------ Kim Silverman Director of Theatre The Grier School Tyrone PA ------------------------------

I have a degree in music and over the years have discovered that, although I may have an edge in teaching music, there are very competent non-degreed musicians out there that can coach and train students. Sometimes, very competent musicians are horrible teachers. I would assume this is the same for the theater world. I have successfully built a performing arts program at my school and am the sole music and theater teacher. I accepted the position, not under any assumptions, but out of a desire to expand my horizons and those of my students. The difference here is that I was not "forced" into this position. Ultimately, my point is we cannot pigeon-hole roles based off of experience and assume that people will fail. I've seem many times people rise to the occasion and supercede expectations. It may seem nonsensical to hire a musician to direct a play, but that musician may turn out to be a great theater director. What about all the people in the performing world who have theater, music, and dance training. Their experience may be invaluable. And again, apologies for repeating myself, this also is very dependant on the person's skills as a teacher.

------------------------------
Daniel Dewig
Teacher
St. Francis Central Coast Catholic High School
WATSONVILLE CA
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2015 09:57
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

Thank you. I would still love to hear more information from other directors Re: director vs musical director directing musicals. I am trying to put together an argument. Thanks, again.

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

I agree with the others so far. You're the director, the theatrical vision is up to you. That said, if the vocal teacher is an experienced director of stage plays, your mileage may vary.

In your shoes, I would like to get a full explanation of why the arrangement is as it is. Also, it might be interesting to reach out to alumni and parents and find out what they think of it.

Scott
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Scott Piehler
Drama Director
Lilburn GA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

I think your argument should be that although she has been directing the musicals, you are now the Director of Theatre and all productions should be directed by you. When they hired you, they knew you could direct a musical as well, and I'm not sure, but maybe the person before you didn't have the skill set to do it. This will establish you as the director with the student body, the parents, the other faculty, etc. Not knowing the back story, perhaps she directed the musicals because no one else felt like they could or wanted to. Now they have hired you and you are not only able to direct the musicals, but should direct them as the Director of Theatre. I would tell them that in most schools, the only time the choral teacher directs the musicals is because the drama teacher doesn't like to or doesn't feel like they're the best suited to do so, which is fine. You need to be established as the director of productions at your school and they need to back you up.

------------------------------
Gail Bartell
Altamonte Springs FL
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

We do a musical every other year.  We do most of the rehearsals in class, and students may be enrolled in Theatre III Honors, Theatre IV Honors, or Play Production (which can count as Theatre II or students can take it after they have a credit in Theatre IV) OR Musical Theatre, which is on the vocal music track in NC.  That puts two teachers in the classroom every day.  

I am the director, designer, and technical director.  As such, I handle all blocking and working with students on the acting.

The choral director is the musical director.  She teaches all the vocal music to the individuals and groups who sing.  She also works with one of our band directors as we get close to the performances to coordinate the pit band of band students.

We hire a choreographer, unless we have a student who is up to the challenge.

This system works well for us.  If I have a student teacher, I give him/her part of the design or building load or make him/her AD. 

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C. J. Breland
Asheville NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2015 07:50
From: Gail Bartell
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I think your argument should be that although she has been directing the musicals, you are now the Director of Theatre and all productions should be directed by you. When they hired you, they knew you could direct a musical as well, and I'm not sure, but maybe the person before you didn't have the skill set to do it. This will establish you as the director with the student body, the parents, the other faculty, etc. Not knowing the back story, perhaps she directed the musicals because no one else felt like they could or wanted to. Now they have hired you and you are not only able to direct the musicals, but should direct them as the Director of Theatre. I would tell them that in most schools, the only time the choral teacher directs the musicals is because the drama teacher doesn't like to or doesn't feel like they're the best suited to do so, which is fine. You need to be established as the director of productions at your school and they need to back you up.

------------------------------
Gail Bartell
Altamonte Springs FL
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

------------------------------
Charity Moon Henry
Lavonia GA
------------------------------
There is no professional forum that the director doesn't direct the musical.  I would find a nice way to state that just because it has been done this way in the past doesn't mean it's the right or best way.  If we are training our kids to work professionally, then it should be run the same.  Music director works vocals.  I hope you guys get it worked out!  I know it has to be frustrating.  (Our music dept in college did direct the opra's)

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------

I wrote an extensive response that for some reason did not post. I'll do my best to remember what I said.

I understand that there are always people willing and able to direct musicals, however; if you have a full and willing production staff (Theatre Teacher, Chorus Teacher, Band Teacher) then that is what you should have because it best represents professional theatre. In my opinion, you should always work towards the most professional structure as it prepares students for that after they graduate. This is often a major difference between one program's mission statement or another's (if you do not have one for your program- make one!).

I teach in a very small district (we are the only high school and I am the only theatre teacher for 30 miles in any direction) and when I arrived the mission was definitely "foster a lifelong interest/ love for the arts" which is all good and well but I quickly changed my program's mission by adding "and produce professional quality shows whenever possible in order to better prepare students for performing arts beyond high school". It gives an air of distinction and importance to my program that has revolutionized what theatre is at this school.

That being said, I've worked with many Chorus Teachers- some of which were happy to work on a show as the Vocal Director, others who were adamantly against being anything other that the sole director of the musical. In terms of the experience argument, ask for documentation/ evidence. I've found many people will purportedly have extensive "experience" and when given the opportunity to direct on their own (I gave someone a chance because they adamantly wanted to direct and claimed that they had experience) it blew up in my face and decimated the chorus and theatre programs because students didn't want to work with this person.

I agree that every professional, experienced person is not well versed in educational theatre and therefor does not make an excellent or effective director. On more than one occasion I've witnessed a directing position given to a "professional" over a member of teaching staff and the students never learned anything nor did they hone their craft. I think if you are a novice director thrown into a situation where you have to "learn with them" that is great and totally meaningful that you are willing to step up and do that because those kids deserve the opportunity- but those kids also deserve honesty. If you're learning with them, tell them that. Don't teach them bad habits or arbitrary techniques you made up and dictate to them that this is theatre gospel. You are honest to god hurting them for any future theatre work they may want to do. Also, read a book. There are some excellent books out there on theatre directing that are super easy to read from experienced, successful, and supportive directors. It's not YOUR show, it's the kids' show.

So my advice- tread lightly. In my experience (note I keep saying in my experience because everyone's experience is different and everyone's situation is too) a Chorus Teacher with experience directing musicals who has enjoyed it will likely fight tooth and nail to be the sole director and if they do not get that they can make your life arduous at best and will likely not collaborate well with you or any of the other "professionals" you have working on the show. What's worse, they might treat the students with resentment which will sour the performing arts for those kids.

It comes down to why? Like so many things in theatre you must ask "why"? Why do they want to direct so badly? "Just because..." is not a reason. If it's because it's always been that way and you're new- maybe that's why you're there? If they want to do it because they have a great artistic vision for the show and can't wait to work with you and the students collaboratively- awesome! But more often than not it seems to me it's about control and it's about the glory and attention they get for having put on a musical. In my opinion, the audience shouldn't know what the director looks like and they certainly shouldn't see their mark on the show. That is problem with directing- great directing looks effortless which gives the impression that they didn't do much. If it looks that way, like the action on stage is reality and couldn't help but happening- they've done their job.

My two cents.

Tori

------------------------------
Victoria Kesling Councill
Chapter Director - VA EdTA/ Virginia Thespians
Theatre Director- Fine & Performing Arts Department NKHS
Artistic Director - NKHS Trojan Theatre
Artistic Director - Kent England Exchange Production
Virginia Commonwealth University BFA Theatre Education, BFA Art Education '08
University of Houston - MA in Theatre Candidate '16

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art." - Konstantin Stanislavski
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2015 07:45
From: Charity Moon Henry
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows



------------------------------
Charity Moon Henry
Lavonia GA
------------------------------
There is no professional forum that the director doesn't direct the musical.  I would find a nice way to state that just because it has been done this way in the past doesn't mean it's the right or best way.  If we are training our kids to work professionally, then it should be run the same.  Music director works vocals.  I hope you guys get it worked out!  I know it has to be frustrating.  (Our music dept in college did direct the opra's)

Original Message:
Sent: 03-06-2015 10:43
From: Kim Silverman
Subject: Directing straight and musical shows

I am the newly  appoinnted director of theatre at our school. In this school, the vocal teacher directs the musical. In theatres I have worked in, the director directs, the vocal director rehearses the songs and the musical director rehearses with the orchestra and the choreographer teaches the dances. I am curious to find out how many schools operate without a "Director" when it come to producing the musicals?

------------------------------
Kim Silverman
Director of Theatre
The Grier School
Tyrone PA
------------------------------