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I always have a hard time seeing live theatre advertised as "the arts." Professional theatre is not funded by arts organizations: like mainstream film, it's funded by investors who want a return on their investment. It's considered show business, with the accent on "business."

I'm sure that doesn't answer your question, but the difference does create a perception that too often gets in the way.

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George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
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Original Message:
Sent: 5/20/2023 5:18:00 PM
From: George Ledo
Subject: RE: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

I always have a hard time seeing live theatre advertised as "the arts." Professional theatre is not funded by arts organizations: like mainstream film, it's funded by investors who want a return on their investment. It's considered show business, with the accent on "business."

I'm sure that doesn't answer your question, but the difference does create a perception that too often gets in the way.

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George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
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Shows, either plays or musicals, are "presented" by (the name of school) (the mascot of the school) Players.  My high school performances were

The Miller Place Panther Players
             presents
    THE WHO'S TOMMY

Whomever was financing the shows were listed as Producers inside the program.

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David Kramer
NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2023 08:38
From: Mark Zimmerman
Subject: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

As long as the theatre program is footing the bill, they get the credit. For me that means the posters says, "Firestone Theatre presents  . . .  "

I make sure to give everyone credit for their contributions in other ways.the music director, conductor, and choreographer get credit on the poster, Everyone is listed in the program (of course), everyone gets a bio (of course), everyone gets Thespian points, everyone is included in the communication platform, everyone gets their name on the t-shirt, etc.

It might be a theatre production but so many other kids fit under that umbrella!

Although, now that I think about it, lately I have been crediting both. So my posters say across the top "FIRESTONE THEATRE" and in much smaller type it also says "The Akron School for the Arts" and "Firestone CLC" on the second line. And then below that the word, "presents."

Take it for what you will.

--

Mark A. Zimmerman

Theatre Director,

The Akron School for the Arts

Firestone Community Learning Center

470 Castle Blvd

Akron, Ohio 44313

330-761-3275

FirestoneTheatre.com

Board Member, Ohio Educational Theatre Association

NE Ohio Area Representative

Workshop Committee

Displays/Vendors Committee

https://ohedta.org/

What am I Working On?  A new season of plays and musicals

What am I Reading?  "Shy" by Jesse Green and Mary Rodgers and "The Philosophy of Modern Song" by Bob Dylan

Original Message:
Sent: 5/20/2023 5:18:00 PM
From: George Ledo
Subject: RE: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

I always have a hard time seeing live theatre advertised as "the arts." Professional theatre is not funded by arts organizations: like mainstream film, it's funded by investors who want a return on their investment. It's considered show business, with the accent on "business."

I'm sure that doesn't answer your question, but the difference does create a perception that too often gets in the way.

------------------------------
George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
------------------------------

I think within your question lies a potential answer- if they want it to be "Performing Arts Presents" then ask them which part of the presentation are they willing to fund and take charge of (i.e. the posters and advertisement itself.)? Is the choir director coming in to direct the singing of the ensemble piece and teach them how to do so correctly so that you can focus on directing a scene while they are learning their singing part of their roles. It would mean more of a collaboration between leaders and a willingness to let go, or they may decide they don't want the responsibility and leave it to you as a "Theatre Arts Presents". The result could be fantastic or a fiasco but, it would be an experiment.

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Cherri Seeton
theatre teacher and director
Strack Intermediate
TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-20-2023 17:18
From: George Ledo
Subject: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

I always have a hard time seeing live theatre advertised as "the arts." Professional theatre is not funded by arts organizations: like mainstream film, it's funded by investors who want a return on their investment. It's considered show business, with the accent on "business."

I'm sure that doesn't answer your question, but the difference does create a perception that too often gets in the way.

------------------------------
George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 5/20/2023 5:18:00 PM
From: George Ledo
Subject: RE: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

I always have a hard time seeing live theatre advertised as "the arts." Professional theatre is not funded by arts organizations: like mainstream film, it's funded by investors who want a return on their investment. It's considered show business, with the accent on "business."

I'm sure that doesn't answer your question, but the difference does create a perception that too often gets in the way.

------------------------------
George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
------------------------------

I do 3 shows each year - the play & our student directed one-act festival are presented by the theatre program, but the spring musical is presented by the performing arts department. For me it has nothing to do with money or who puts in the most work, but simply an acknowledgment of the fact that everyone in the department & all of our boosters help with the production - and I could not do it without all of their help.
I don’t think there is a right or wrong choice with something like this, nor do I think the public really pays attention to what’s printed at the top of the poster when deciding whether or not to attend a show. This is about what feels right for you, your colleagues & your school.

Sent from my iPhone

At our school, we have created a border that goes around all of the performing arts posters.  It has our school's name and Performing Arts at the top; and our school website and school year at the bottom.   All posters created in the Performing Arts Department are dropped into the border.  This provides consistency for the department as well as the ability to designate more specifically who is producing the event.  

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Terri Ferguson
Performing Arts Chair
Ursuline Academy
TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2023 08:28
From: Melissa Purdy
Subject: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

I do 3 shows each year - the play & our student directed one-act festival are presented by the theatre program, but the spring musical is presented by the performing arts department. For me it has nothing to do with money or who puts in the most work, but simply an acknowledgment of the fact that everyone in the department & all of our boosters help with the production - and I could not do it without all of their help.
I don't think there is a right or wrong choice with something like this, nor do I think the public really pays attention to what's printed at the top of the poster when deciding whether or not to attend a show. This is about what feels right for you, your colleagues & your school.

Sent from my iPhone

Hi Julie,

I have the same conflict every time I make the poster. Although, admittedly, mine is an internal one as no one has ever asked or made a comment. 

I have started to just say "Name of High School Presents" rather than attributing the work to theatre or the arts department. My way of thinking goes:
1) even though I am completely funded through ticket sales and fundraisers, the school does pay my salary, provides a wonderful space to perform and rehearse, and all the students are part of the school
2) if we want to be part of the bigger picture of the school this is a chance to say "here we are"
3) it is a reminder to those looking at the ad of where the performance is being held 
4) "a rising tide lifts all ships" It doesn't take anything away from your hard work to elevate someone else. It might actually help everyone in the long run. I hope that is maybe the intent of whoever asked you to make a change. If you feel like someone is trying to take credit for themselves then maybe it is another issue all together. 

I totally know where you are coming from and still question my verbiage every time I am about to create the advertising. 

Congratulations on putting up your show!

Break A Leg,

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J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Jamestown High School Theatre
Williamsburg, VA
james.stone@wjccschools.org
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Original Message:
Sent: 5/21/2023 10:25:00 AM
From: James Stone
Subject: RE: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

Hi Julie,

I have the same conflict every time I make the poster. Although, admittedly, mine is an internal one as no one has ever asked or made a comment. 

I have started to just say "Name of High School Presents" rather than attributing the work to theatre or the arts department. My way of thinking goes:
1) even though I am completely funded through ticket sales and fundraisers, the school does pay my salary, provides a wonderful space to perform and rehearse, and all the students are part of the school
2) if we want to be part of the bigger picture of the school this is a chance to say "here we are"
3) it is a reminder to those looking at the ad of where the performance is being held 
4) "a rising tide lifts all ships" It doesn't take anything away from your hard work to elevate someone else. It might actually help everyone in the long run. I hope that is maybe the intent of whoever asked you to make a change. If you feel like someone is trying to take credit for themselves then maybe it is another issue all together. 

I totally know where you are coming from and still question my verbiage every time I am about to create the advertising. 

Congratulations on putting up your show!

Break A Leg,

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J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Jamestown High School Theatre
Williamsburg, VA
james.stone@wjccschools.org
------------------------------

I understand it has nothing to do with money and so forth in high school. No problem there.

However, school is supposed to be about teaching students how to be ready for their next step, and theatre is no exception. Theatre is a legitimate career field, and getting them, parents, and others to think of it as training for a career, I believe, should be a consideration. And that includes their perception of it. In this country, "the arts" are always begging for money, while "the entertainment industry" is making money hand over fist.

If we want (or care to) have others perceive theatre as a possible career option, we need to make it clear what professional theatre is.

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George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-21-2023 13:26
From: Billy Houck
Subject: Theatre Department or Performing Arts Department?

Who asked you to list it that way?

I always felt that the purpose of the posters was to advertise the show and give people the information they may need before they come. Eye-catching graphics, title, author, date, time, venue, cost, plus any extra information required by contract. 

You can list presenters, producers and directors in the program.

Billy Houck

Theatre Teacher, retired.

Julia,

At my school, I am the Drama Club sponsor, and I direct one straight play and co-direct the musical with the music teacher who teaches both choir and band.  For the straight play I usually put on the programs and flyers "[Name of School] Drama Club proudly presents...."  But when it comes to the musical I list our music department first because the music boosters usually pay for the musical.  However, several of our shows in recent years have involved students from all three levels:  elementary, middle school, and high school, so I have started to list the name of the school corporation first on the programs and flyers and then the other groups that are involved in producing the show.  I admit i have never been questioned about how I advertised who presents our shows, but I do not think it should be creating a problem for you.  Like all of us, I am sure you already have enough to worry about when It comes to putting a show together!

Ken Robinson  

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Kenneth Robinson
Drama Club Sponsor
Wapahani High School
Selma IN
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Money talks. The producer is the Theatre Department when the Theatre Department funds the production, just as if theatre students participated or the lighting designer lent their expertise to the spring concert, the producer is the Music Department. There are many instances where departments share resources and create interdepartmental opportunities for productions. Perhaps there is a way to give credit within the program to folks from other departments such as placing asterisks behind their names, etc. or listing the performing arts department in the 'special thanks" section. But unless your school explores the option of allocating funds from both departmental budgets, the title page credit goes to the department that foots the bill.

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Tomica Jenkins
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It is a fair question. When I have produced a straight play and I have done the casting, directing, producing, etc., I reference the performance as being presented by the theatre department. If it is a musical and I have used the support of additional teachers within the building (band director, choir director, dance teacher, art teacher, etc.) I would use the performing arts verbiage. 

An easier or more practical compromise might be to use the company name for all performances (eg. Yada Yada High School invites you to experience __________ Presented by the Gray Curtain Theatre Company). 

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Rebecca Cates
Berea KY
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I agree with you that it is really the theatre. We use the company name on all advertising. However, like you, our district is telling us to change to the fine arts department for the advertising next year. It is a school and district policy, so in the end you really can't buck the system without hurting yourself and your theatre department. But I think your argument is valid and really well stated, so it might be worth just putting it out there for the higher ups to mull over. Don't go against them on this issue if you value your career.


Break a leg and may all your theatre seats be filled.

Hey Julie,

I totally agree with George – ask anyone who has ever seen all of the credits at the end of a film.  It's a business!  Think about how many people are involved in creating high school productions – it's like a mini-business, incorporating everything from marketing to employee management.

For another perspective (this one is more comparing the theatre to the sports industry in the US, but runs along the same lines as what you are saying), check out my article on the "Entertainment Arts Department".  You can download it for free here:  https://www.presett.org/resourcelibrary.html 

Cheers for now!

Beth

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Beth Rand, EBMS

FREE RESOURCES to help you level up your admin's support and funding of your school theatre operations

JOIN OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT THEATRE OPERATIONS https://www.facebook.com/groups/presett

www.PRESETT.org
beth@PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
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  In my school district, the play / musical are extra-curricular activities. Students do not need to be enrolled in any course to participate and do not earn any credit for their participation.  When it comes to equity and procedure, Sports are a better comparison than any curricular performing arts program.  Most Chorus, Band, & Orchestra performances/concerts are curricular programs, with all students enrolled in courses, taught during the instructional day, and with almost no after-school rehearsals.  (It is worth noting that, while we have an amazing team of directors, this has occasionally lead to fundamentally different points of view among them.)

  It is, traditionally, the Theatre Teacher, Chorus Teacher, and Band Teacher who put the musical together, however, these are stipend-based "Extra Pay for Extra Duty" positions and are not a foregone conclusion.  For all of the above reasons, it doesn't actually make sense for us to bill the show as being produced by any "Department".  Our after-school theatre production "company" is called the ROSE Players so that is how we bill the shows: "Leonardtown High School ROSE Players Present..." 

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Guy Barbato
Theatre Teacher/Director
Leonardtown High School
MD
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I think your question is valid.  For us, we are the Performing Arts Department.  This was a change from the Music Department that we made several years ago to become more inclusive, combining Choir, Band, Orchestra and Theatre.  It was so separated before, yet the adults and students overlapped on lots of events, not just theatre performances.  We work very hard, as I'm sure many do, to be inclusive and one big family.  We also changed our "cast party" to a "production party" a few years ago too for very similar reasons.

So for us, on all theatre productions, we list "Hickman Performing Arts presents..."

Not sure this really answers your question but it is what we currently do.  I feel very fortunate to work with a great group of colleagues who collaborate on lots of things and really do get along.

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Vicki Palmer
Theatre Technical Director
Hickman High School - Home of the Kewpies
International Thespian Society Troupe #5568
Columbia, MO
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I would honestly just change the name. It feels like more trouble than it's worth.

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Bernadette MacLeod
East Mecklenburg High School
NC
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