Open Forum

Hello all,

I have a situation in our program, and I'm looking for advice.  We have several theatre directors at our school: A MS teacher who directs the Junior Play/Musical, an US teacher who directs the plays (that's me), and a Music teacher who directs the Spring Musical.  Recently we discovered a rift in our approach to students who audition for shows but then decline to participate, for whatever reason.  My approach has always been to err on the side of respecting student autonomy and agency.  I invite the kids to audition, they show up and do so, I then make an offer and they can then either accept or decline the offer.  I assure them that I do not take it personally if they decline the offer.  I think kids, just like adults, have to do a cost-benefit analysis of where they expend their time and energy.  I have even encouraged kids to take better roles in other programs when they were not satisfied with their casting in our program.  My colleague who directs the musical does not feel this way.  He recently held auditions for the Spring Musical.  After he sent out the cast list, three of the seniors who were cast in the chorus declined their offers.  He is incredibly disappointed in these students and has made his displeasure known to them.  The students varied in their reasons for dropping.  One female student is fairly talented and has always been a contender for larger roles but always seems to land in a smaller role or the chorus.  It is her senior year and she just didn't want to be in the chorus again.  The two senior boys are really good actors but not so great singers.  They were both torn between doing the Spring Musical and joining the volleyball team.  After being cast, they elected to go with the latter.  I understand being frustrated and disappointed when students drop our shows, but I tend to err on the side of blessing and releasing and I never take it personally.  My colleague is kind of enraged and he really doesn't like my attitude and approach to this.  I get the sense that he feels that I have encouraged them to take, what is to his mind, this cavalier and selfish approach.  He is of the mind that if a student auditions that they are obligated to accept any role they are offered and anything short of that is a serious character flaw.  What do you all think about this?  How do you process or react to students who decline to accept a role in your plays/musicals?  To be clear, I am not talking about students who agree to do the show and then drop out, ghost or flake.  I think once you have agreed to do something, then you should do it or else it is a character issue.  I just don't think a kid is obligated to accept whatever is offered to them once they've auditioned.  I'm open to hearing other points of view.

That seems insane to me, and like the other directors take it a little too personally.  You don't owe a particular role to anyone auditioning, and they don't owe you anything prior to accepting the role.  I could only imagine how quickly a program would fall apart if they were required to take whatever the director wanted them to play.  Also, in my show I want actors who want to be part of the process regardless of their role.  They'd be welcome exits to me. 

I agree with your mindset - the students should have a chance to see the cast list & then decide to commit or not.  We ask everyone to complete a google form to accept/decline their role.  If they decline, we ask them to list a reason.

We also include several statements on the audition form itself  - to get a sense of what they envision for themselves. Parents and students are to initial the form at each line to indicate agreement. (There are more - but these are the ones most involved in casting decisions.)

___ I will respect the decision of the directing team and accept any role offered to me.  Explain, if necessary:

___ I understand that I have provided calendar conflicts at the time of the audition.  Any new conflicts must be communicated in writing to the director – and that excessive or ambiguous conflicts may impact casting/role.

_____ I would like to be considered for the following TYPE of role:   Principal/Lead       Supporting Role          Ensemble

_____*I would be willing to alter my appearance by any of the following:

           YES/NO wearing wigs/facial hair     YES/NO dress/act as opposite gender      YES/NO cutting/dying your hair

_____*I would be willing to act in roles that include the following:

           YES/NO onstage kissing    YES/NO costuming that includes wearing a pregnancy belly      YES/NO walking on stilts 

_____ I will not cut or color my hair (or alter my appearance) without first consulting the director for approval.

It is not an easy decision for anyone - casting is SO hard!  But we are dealing with KIDS - they are HS students, but they really are just kids in bigger bodies.  They deserve the right to make decisions for themselves, and if they decline immediately, then there is time to re-cast.   We had to do this with The Crucible a few years ago, because we gave the role of John Proctor to a senior boy who had never done theatre before... so the "veterans" felt slighted and we lost 4 seniors.  It was important to us to make sure that they all realized that nobody was irreplaceable - and we had a conversation with the 4 seniors who showed up to the read-through that if they entered the room, they were making a commitment - ultimately, they walked away & did not enter the room and we moved forward.

We addressed the cast at the read-through and said that we were going to have to re-work the list, and gave everyone the chance to tell us any info that we should know before we did so. It all worked out well in the end - but it was a teachable moment and now the kids know that we will back up what we say with appropriate actions.  

Best, Missy

I never had this problem in the 12 years at my position until recently and it is distressing to say the least.  For some reason, students suddenly feel entitled to roles regardless of whether they have the talent to carry the role.  I typically give my seniors priority in casting and everyone knows and understands that but this year i have been blessed with a handful of very talented juniors.  They think like professionals in that they'd be cast because they see themselves as what's best for the show.  It has gotten complicated and frankly turned into a headache.  My department is small and any drop outs effect the whole.  I really can't afford to lose anybody but I am not a pizza and cannot please everyone.  I also tell my students that if they want to look elsewhere for an opportunity then be my guest.  That does not leave a good taste in my mouth however for future roles.  Why can't everyone understand that??  We build an ensemble not a starring role for your ego. UGH!  This is a tough one for sure.  Good luck - I have had to conduct more therapy sessions and hand holding then should be and it's up to me to stop it.  I'm trying.  Even with my current show - I am keeping my fingers crossed but if kids drop out - college recommendations might be the trade off? I don't know.

I see it as part of the culture that I have to work on in my program.  I spend a great deal of time encouraging all actors to see every role as significant and the stories we tell as something to be proud to be part of, no matter the role they receive.  I encourage my students to be part of the "team" no matter the role in which they are cast.  We hear in sports how coaches love to have unselfish players on their athletic teams.  I feel 100 percent that has to be the culture we strive for in our theatrical programs as well.  That culture is something I have to continue to work on in my program constantly and getting there, if the culture is not already in place, can be difficult.  It has taken me years to instill that in my program and I spend a lot of time continuing to work on it.  Several years ago, I decided to begin talking to the directors at the youth level in my area to ask for their help instilling this culture in their programs the younger age.  And I feel that has been helpful maintaining that culture in my program at the HS.  

I ask my students, as part of the audition process, if they will accept any role or to please indicate what roles in the show we are doing the would not feel comfortable accepting.  Then I make it very clear that I will respect the words they write in the audition application pertaining to what they are willing to accept and what they are not and that they need to be prepared for the outcome based on that.  I then know what to expect prior to casting and they do as well after the cast list is posted.  It doesn't affect my casting decisions, but it sets the expectation ahead of time for the actors and me.  I also make it clear that if they say they will accept a role then back out after casting is complete that will likely affect casting in future roles.  I tell them that their honesty in answering those questions with themselves as well as with me is extremely important.

My program is far from perfect and of course I have to continue to work on this culture with my students year after year, but it has gotten much better than when I did not spend time working on it.  I still have students who occasionally drop after not being cast in the role they wanted even though they said they would see it through.  BUT I do NOT take it personally at all and I encourage the students who remain to not take it personally.  I refer myself and my students back to the expectation set forth during the audition application process.  And sometimes we have to spend a bit of time chatting about that.  I find it a much more enjoyable experience not to have to work with selfish actors no matter their talent.  I feel that part of what we do as theatrical educators is not only to help create better actors but to also help create better humans and helping my students see how to be part of a team will serve to help them throughout life, well after our little theatrical program here in high school.   

Over the past twenty or so years, I've become a fan of the Internet Movie Database (IMDb), which is a huge collection of detailed information on films from the early days to today, and includes info on cast, staff, trivia, and other material. The trivia pages are especially interesting to me, and sometimes more so than the movies themselves. Anyway, there is often an item about a role bring offered to someone who turned it down for any reason or no reason.

The point is, this happens.

In all my years of training as a set designer in a community college and two universities, I never heard of a director getting upset when a student turned down an offered role, as long as this happened before rehearsals started. There was always someone who was the second choice. They may not have been the ideal choice, but they worked out.

Obviously, we don't know where your musical director trained, or if he or she trained in music (instead of theater), where things may be different, but there might be something there that's getting in the way of not taking it personally. 

Hello, I sympathize with your predicament.  I'm probably more like your colleague, but the difference may be in more of how it is handled up front.  I believe that I have a good relationship with our choir director who directs the musical, but I also recognize that we do have some philosophical differences when it comes to auditions.  He is of the mindset of it is always good to audition for the sake of experience (which I agree with), but I tell students upfront for my productions that "If you cannot handle not getting the part you want, then do not audition."  I have that on the first page of the audition packet and repeat it multiple times to make sure they understand. I provide them with a schedule along with holding a pre-audition meeting.  My colleague also holds a pre-audition meeting as well, but he says that if you are not interested, then do not come to the callback.  I do not want to have to recast after casting if at all possible.  It is simply a matter of me wanting to head off diva behavior right up front.  I agree with wanting students to get audition experience for the sake of experience, but not at the expense of having to deal with with diva behavior up front.  I also make it clear during my pre-audition meeting that my colleague's approach is not wrong, but simply a choice.  My colleague is a far more patient person than I am.  I'm very much a "don't let the door hit you on the way out" kind of director.  I tell them everyone is replaceable...INCLUDING ME.  I also know that my kids respect both me and my colleague because neither of us belittles the other's preferences.  Again, I make it as clear as possible that where we differ is simply a choice in our respective domains and that each is valid, but my choice is that if you are auditioning, then I am assuming you are willing to commit to the production, regardless of the role.  From what you say in your post, I would advise (just my two cents) to make it clear that your expectations at the time of auditions is different from your colleague's but to make it clear that neither is better than the other's.  It's simply a matter of what level of drama you are prepared to deal with.  I have a top actress who did not audition for our show and has a bit of a diva attitude (but has the talent to back it up) because she is gunning hard for the spring musical.  There is a good chance she may not get the desired lead role, and lord help my colleague deal with that diva outburst if she doesn't get the desired role.  I certainly do not wish my colleague ill will, but this is one of those cases where my policy might work better.  Again, if you and your colleague from it as a "Mrs. G does it this way and Mr. M does it this other way" then it helps avoid some of those resentful feelings between colleagues.  Let's face it, if you plan to stay at your school for a while, you and your colleague will have to work together far longer than any of the students you currently have (say four years max).

100%, everything that Melissa said.

What Scott said about making it part of the culture also resonated with me.

  If your colleague did not communicate his expectations upfront, it seems unreasonable to be "enraged" after the fact. His point of view is very understandable, but needs to be clearly communicated in advance because there is nothing fundamentally right or wrong about either process. Every program and production, whether scholastic, community, or professional, is going to have it's own process, requirements, and expectations. These can be difficult for students to navigate, so the clearer we can be about our expectations the better - and that these might be different than what they have encountered before or will encounter in the future.

That being said, I have no desire to work with students who would drop a production because they didn't get a big enough role. When students audition, we discuss all of the above and on their audition form they sign that they understand and agree to the following:

1. I understand that I am auditioning to be in the show and NOT for a particular role.  If I am cast, I promise to do my best in that role, big or small.
2. I understand that if I am cast and subsequently decline the offered role, that could impact my casting in future productions here at {school} and/or eligibility for certain activities/honors.

Mr. Butz,

I understand your frustration, but I tend to lean towards your musical director.  When my music director and/or I hold auditions, we always ask on the audition form what roles the student is interested in trying out for but we also include this question:  "Are you willing to accept another role?"  As I am sure you will agree, a student may want and feel they can do a particular role, but as a director, I may not agree with the student's view.  If a student is dead set on a role that I and/or the music director do not think is a good fit and the student indicates they are not willing to take another role, that gives us a little insight to their attitude.  We may or may not cast the student in the desired role or in another role.  However, we have cast students in roles that they did not indicate an interest in or who have said they were not willing to take other roles.  Very seldom, but once in a while, do we have a student refuse the role offered to him/her.  For example, we just produced Disney Descendants the Musical, and we had a student who was set only on the role of Carlos, but we cast him as Jay instead.  He accepted the role without argument and did well. 

While I agree with you that a student does not have to accept an offered role, I do think that upon agreeing to audition, a student has made some sort of commitment to the show and should understand that a director's casting decisions are done with the best interests of the cast and show in mind.  I should explain that I teach and am the Drama Club sponsor at a small rural school and that usually I get just enough to audition, and sometimes not enough, to cast the show.  So when a student declines a role, it sometimes puts me in a bind to fill that role.  That may be why I look at this situation a little differently.  Of course, as you indicated, it is a different situation when a student quits a role mid-production.

I don't know if I have helped you or not, but I wanted to give my thoughts.

Thank you,

Ken Robinson

Jim,

We had this problem until, with the approval of administration, we added a stipulation in our cast contract that anybody who drops a role after the cast list is posted is ineligible for casting in mainstages for the rest of the school year and all of the following school year.  This information is made clear at the audition at which time students can opt out of auditioning.  No issues since then.

Cole Raison

Eldorado High School Drama

Albuquerque, New Mexico

I'm going to come at this from a different viewpoint: that of a retired professional set designer.

Several years ago I contacted the athletic director at my old high school and asked him how they teach and coach sports (say football for instance): do they see it as "football" or as "high school football?" His answer was that they understand HS kids aren't as strong or fast as college or professional players, but they want the kids to be ready for their next step in the sport if they choose to take it. IOW, they teach the same plays, rules, and other elements as college and professional football. Which really got me thinking: what would a football game be like if the two teams were playing by different rules?

The same concept applies to music, voice, dance, and other subjects. HS music classes teach music the same way colleges do: the same notes, tempos, chords, and other stuff. That way, when a kid goes to college, he or she won't have to find out that "their" music techniques are different from what they learned in HS.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for years, when we hired a kid right out of a "tech theatre" college program to work in a pro shop, and it turned out he or she didn't know how to use power tools, how to cover or run a flat, or how to do other essential tasks because they did them "differently" in school. I had to re-train a number of them, practically from scratch, including how to work safely. For many of them, it was culture shock. 

There's a lot of information online about how to audition for a professional show, what to do or not do, and what the expectations are, and most of it says the same. If I were a HS teacher, I would do some research on this and integrate it into my approach. That way I could say to parents and admins, "this is how it's done in professional theatre, and I want to make sure my students understand it and are ready for it in the future." I would like to think that it would even give students a sense of thinking and behaving professionally... and maybe even (would this be cool!) get them thinking about theatre as a professional career instead of just something they do in high school.

Well said Jim Butz! 

I am going to copy your post to share it with my students when I talk about casting and auditions in the future.  There is no one way or right way to audition or accept role.  I have a student who wants a career in the business and has applied to a boatload of programs, but has not done any after school shows for the past two years.  She is too busy preparing for college and was working on skills and building her song book. At first it was a huge disappointment to me because she is very talented and brings a huge energy to a cast. However, I know that as a grown up I can't be salty about it. Also if a student drops after casting - no big deal, I would much rather work with the a smaller cast of kids who really want to be there. 

Cheers and Break a leg to all who try to navigate teenagers and produce quality shows - it is challenging work!