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Gunshots in a play

  • 1.  Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-08-2022 19:09

    Good evening,
    I was wondering how you all handle gunshots in performance.  Do any of you use prop guns with blanks anymore?  If so, what safety measures are in place? Plastic guns with a sound effect?  

    Thank you for your feedback.
    Katie Alley



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    Katie Alley
    Theatre Teacher
    TN
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  • 2.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-09-2022 05:06
     I use a clapper backstage, two pieces of wood hinged together snapped shut at the moment of the shot, carefully choreographed so as to look and sound realistic. Works like a charm.



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  • 3.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-09-2022 13:14
    I never use blanks - there is still the risk of a projectile flying out of the weapon if the weapon is real.  Prop gun that was built as a prop - never an actual weapon.  And a sound effect of the shot.  Also post a notice in the lobby, state in the curtain speech, and write it in the program that "gunshot sounds and weapons on stage will be in this production"  now have fun!

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    Holly Rose
    Drama Teacher
    Federal Way High School
    WA
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-09-2022 13:14
    I find it helpful to have the shooter's arm fly back when the sound is heard (whether that weapon would have a kick to it or not) , to clarify visually that it was the gun that caused that gunshot noise. Also, before the shot, a slow lowering of the arm (and maybe even a splaying out of the elbow(s)) creates a much more manageable cue than any sort of quick-draw movement.
    A couple of 2x4's snapped together at the right moment, as Elisabeth suggests, does indeed make the right sound (hopefully not too far away from action to wings).
    And sound effects offer so many choices of gunshot..but again, you've got to get the timing right.

    ------------------------------
    Douglas "Chip" Rome
    Theatre Consultant
    Educational Stages
    Burke VA
    http://EducationalStages.com
    https://bit.ly/RWTEOview
    https://bit.ly/eTeachTech
    ------------------------------

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  • 5.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-09-2022 14:16
    I used the same starter pistols used in track and field. They are very loud, though, so certain safety measures are necessary.

    --
    Ann Hileman, M.A.
    Executive Board of Indiana Thespians
    Indiana Thespian Hall of Fame
     
    Maconaquah High School
    256 East 800 South
    Bunker Hill, IN 46914
    765-689-9131 x 5550 (phone)
    765-689-9528 (fax)

     



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  • 6.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-10-2022 19:23
    I've seen a number of lobby signs announcing the use of "shot sounds," and, thinking like a member of the public who may not be familiar with the story, my first question would be "why?"

    For my money, I would rather see a sign that says something along the lines of, "This story requires a character to fire a weapon. The prop weapon we use is safe, but it will make a loud noise." Something like that.

    What that does is put the use of the weapon directly on the shoulders of the story and also tells me that it's safe.

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    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-22-2022 17:05
      |   view attached
    Sorry for joining this conversation late.  I wanted to share a prop weapons waiver form that I developed and have used at several school districts.  I've left it in Word, so if you'd like to use it, feel free to adapt the wording to your situation.

    Beth

    ------------------------------
    Beth Rand, EBMS
    Educational Lighting Designer
    School Theatre Operations Specialist
    District Auditorium Specialist for SVVSD


    RandCDLLC@gmail.com
    Westminster, CO

    www.PRESETT.org
    Tech theatre books
    Free downloads
    NEW: TECHIE T-SHIRT SHOP!
    ------------------------------

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    WEAPONS & COMBAT AGRMT GENERIC.docx   13 KB 1 version
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  • 8.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-22-2022 23:44
    Thank you all for your thoughtful replies on this important topic!
    Katie Alley




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  • 9.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-23-2022 11:22
    A number of years ago I was the prop master and weapons wrangler at a large community theatre, and our procedure was pretty much what Beth wrote out in her agreement, the only difference being that we provided the weapons (rented, bought, or from our collection). I was the only one who handled them prior to a production, they were locked away when not in use, and they went from secure storage to a deck manager, then to the actor, back to the deck manager, and back to storage after use.

    I also introduced a couple of extra steps.

    Just before the first dress rehearsal started, I did a safety briefing for the entire cast and crew, basically an orientation to the weapon (and what it sounded like if it was a gun: ours were based on starter pistols), plus a "look all you want but don't touch" reminder. I also made up a couple of "LOADED" tags to put on guns to make it obvious to everyone. These were small pieces of wood, painted red, with "LOADED" written on them and a string that went thru the finger guard. We used a rental company that supplied all kinds of theatrical weapons, including period pistols, rifles and other items that they made themselves from starter pistols, and each one came with safety and cleaning instructions.


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    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-24-2022 23:52

    Respectfully, George, that worked fine 30 years ago but there is no reason to have any kind of fire-able weapon on stage now. We've had too many people killed, deafened or injured from blank-firing guns and using them isn't worth the risk at the educational or non-profit theater level. 

    I've been doing a fair amount of expert witness work with theater safety and these stories break my heart as well as the hearts of the bereaved and the wallets of those who didn't put use the safest method possible. 

    Use a wooden or rubber replica and a sound effect. The audience knows they are seeing a play, they will be far better with that than something that could hurt them or someone else. 



    ------------------------------
    Kristi Ross-Clausen
    Safety Maven/Consultant
    IATSE 470/Actors Equity Member
    Alliance for Wisconsin Theatre Education
    Association for Quality in AV Board
    AVIXA/USITT
    Teacher, Author, Speaker
    www.theaterhealthandsafety.com
    Appleton, WI
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-25-2022 10:57
    Hi, Kristii,

    Thanks for your note. I guess I should have been clearer: it wasn't 30 years ago, it was 15.  :)

    In any case, it worked for us because we were very careful to educate everyone involved and then followed through to make sure it all happened safely. I would guess that the vast majority of accidents are due to carelessness, but that's only a guess. I know the guy who took over from me wasn't as detailed as I was.

    As much as I'm of the opinion that there are lots of plays that don't require gunshots and that therefore the safety problem is easily avoided, I know some schools and nonprofits will continue to stage them and have to deal with how to do it. Maybe the "ideal" solution would be to fall back on modern technology and come up with an electronic device that sounds right but doesn't fire anything, small enough to place inside a wood or plastic weapon. That's a niche that I will happily leave to someone else to fill.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-28-2022 10:06

    It's a risk-benefit analysis. The risk of something going very wrong is far, far, far greater than the benefit of doing it with a weapon that is fireable. 

    A recent example from our friends in the film world: What We Know About the Fatal Shooting on Alec Baldwin's Movie Set

    Nytimes remove preview
    What We Know About the Fatal Shooting on Alec Baldwin's Movie Set
    Fatal Shooting on Set of 'Rust' The authorities are investigating the death of the cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of "Rust" in Santa Fe County. Here's what we know. Send any friend a story As a subscriber, you have 10 gift articles to give each month. Anyone can read what you share.
    View this on Nytimes >


    And having the volume controlled at the sound board, rather than from something hidden in the prop "gun" helps protect hearing, too. 



    ------------------------------
    Kristi Ross-Clausen
    Safety Maven/Consultant
    IATSE 470/Actors Equity Member
    Alliance for Wisconsin Theatre Education
    Association for Quality in AV Board
    AVIXA/USITT
    Teacher, Author, Speaker
    www.theaterhealthandsafety.com
    Appleton, WI
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-28-2022 10:07

    Respectfully, George, that was fine 30 years ago. Now there is zero reason to have any kind of weapon that can actually fire used in educational theater and a whole host of reasons to stick with non-firable replicas from rubber or wood and a volume moderated gun shot effect instead. 

    We've had too many incidents of deafness, injury and even death from prop guns firing blanks. To use a blank-firing weapon safely takes a trained armorer with another equally well trained person to double check the work. And even in professional situations where people who claim to have those credentials are working, people still get killed. 

    Our students can act and the audience will accept "it's a gun" without needing to be nervous about there actually BEING a gun in the space. 



    ------------------------------
    Kristi Ross-Clausen
    Safety Maven/Consultant
    IATSE 470/Actors Equity Member
    Alliance for Wisconsin Theatre Education
    Association for Quality in AV Board
    AVIXA/USITT
    Teacher, Author, Speaker
    www.theaterhealthandsafety.com
    Appleton, WI
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Gunshots in a play

    Posted 11-29-2022 16:00
    Hi George,

    I would tag onto this that directors should contact their local members of the Society of American Fight Directors.

    My son and I took the stage firearms course offered by SAFD about a decade ago (My son wanted to take the course and I wasn't going to let him have all the fun.) My son has since acted as armorer for a several high school productions even after he graduated. I have a number of theatrical firearms in my collection. None of them are real weapons as was the case in the Alec Baldwin incident. All of them may be and have been used safely on stage.

    As far as I am concerned, I've never heard a sound effect, or clapper, that sounded right. The sound comes from the wrong location, or sounds fake. The use of these spoil the verity of the production.

    I completely understand the nature of our current world and the issues surrounding the use of weapons on stage. So . . . what's the solution?

    My opinions.

    1. If you are not comfortable with the use of a weapon onstage (be that a knife, sword, gun, rock, or fist), don't do a play that uses them.

    2. If you are comfortable with the use of a weapon onstage, check your training. Are you comfortable because you haven't thought it through, or have you had the specialized training to use the particular implements?

    3. If you haven't had the specialized training in the particular implement, contact the Society of American Fight Directors. See if there is anyone in your area that is willing to help you with your fight choreography and weapons safety. I had the great fortune to be trained in stage combat via the Society of American Fight Directors and I got my start in fight choreography helping local high schools before I got my own teaching job. I've trained hundreds, (easily over a thousand) of high school students in proper, safe usage of stage weapons.

    4. If you haven't had the specialized training and can't get trained help, don't do a play that requires them.

    5. Take the time to create the chain of custody and responsibility for any stage weapons. Rack the swords and secure the firearms under one person's control when they're off stage. That should be that person's entire responsibility back stage. Most accidents / incidents don't happen on stage. They happen off stage because responsible storage and security protocols are not followed and when they happen on stage, the cause can usually be traced back to those protocols not being followed.

    6. Spend the money to purchase / rent appropriate weapons which are designed for use on stage. Don't cut corners on this. Incidents occur because inappropriate tools are used. You wouldn't use a wrench to drive a nail. Don't use a wall hanger, or real weapon of any kind on stage. Get the right tools.

    7. Accidents happen. Prepare for that. For example, when I choreograph sword fights, I always add the "what happens if a sword breaks during this fight" bit of choreography that can get the fight safely to it's appropriate conclusion in the case of an accident. I have been performing and choreographing stage combat for almost fifty years. In that time, I have been injured once and had two performers injured. All three of these injuries were caused by freak accidents. I never did figure out how I got hurt since I was doing a roll on a mat at the time and ended up with a bad heel bruise. Just freaky.

    So . . . Enough of my soap box.

    I firmly believe that stage swords and stage firearms can be used safely on stage and add to the verisimilitude of the production if used appropriately and with the correct training. I know there are some folks out there who would vehemently disagree with me and I respect that. I hope that those people would select some other play.

    Best, Bob

    ------------------------------
    Robert Smith
    VA Co-Chapter Director
    Virginia Thespians
    VA
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    Original Message


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