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  • 1.  Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-20-2022 12:33

    Hello,

    Has anyone ever come across a fire department requirement for a State Building Permit to build a set?

    One of the schools I work for just had a fire inspector come through the theatre where a large unit set (which, for reasons unknown, is being called a "prop") has been constructed on stage for their upcoming production of "Once Upon a Mattress", and shut down all access(!).

    Their report asserts that any structure built for a production which students and staff are within or on requires building permitting, inspection and approval through the State Division of Fire Prevention and Control.  It is stated that they intend to show this as a fire code violation for the following reasons:

    • Lack of permitting to the Division of Fire Prevention & Control.
    • Lack of plan review to the Division of Fire Prevention & Control.
    • Lack of building inspection by the Division of Fire Prevention & Control.

    They then go on to say:

    NOTE: Under no circumstance is the current prop build on-stage to be used for drama production until approved by the State Division of Fire Prevention & Control.

    The question the district is asking is, does this type of construction by school staff need to be inspected by the State of Colorado Division of Fire Prevention & Control?

    I have been in high school technical theatre since I was a high school student myself, I have worked in educational theatre as a professional since 1997, and I have worked in over 20 theatres.  NEVER have I had this issue come up.

    It's my understanding that theatrical sets are exempt from needing permits because they are considered "temporary".  And, presumably, the wood used to construct them is treated wood.  Also, in the case of this particular set, it appears that fall prevention has been addressed. 

    If anyone has any information about why a set would not require building permitting, inspection and approval through a State Division of Fire Prevention and Control, could you please share your case.

     Thanks in advance for any support of our cause!

    Beth



    ------------------------------
    Beth Rand, EBMS
    Educational Lighting Designer
    School Theatre Operations Specialist
    District Auditorium Specialist for SVVSD


    RandCDLLC@gmail.com
    Westminster, CO

    www.PRESETT.org
    Tech theatre books
    Free downloads
    NEW: TECHIE T-SHIRT SHOP!
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-20-2022 15:30
    I worked in theatres on both sides of the country for about fifty years, and, based on Beth's post, I can think of several possible reasons for this to happen:

    1. If the same school hasn't had this issue come up before, then it could be that the fire inspector is new and doesn't understand what theatres do and how they do it. I've run into this a couple of times and generally a conversation takes care of it -- as long as the fire inspector isn't just on a power trip. However, calling it a "prop" is a clue that the inspector may not know about theatre.

    2. Or, the fire inspector saw something in the construction that he/she felt was unsafe and did what they thought was correct.

    3. Or (going along with #1 above), the inspector didn't understand what he/she was seeing, i.e., the type of construction and materials, and wanted to refer it to the state. Which sounds strange, because local inspectors generally have the authority to close down venues if they feel it necessary.

    4. Or, this is a brand-new regulation at the state/county/city level. The danger here is that if this is a new thing, and these inspections are really required, the cost of mounting theatrical productions will escalate to the point where theatres will be forced to shut down.

    Personally, I would set up a conversation with the inspector, school district admin, and legal counsel, and include a discussion of how theatres nationwide build scenery and how they provide for fire and construction safety.



    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-21-2022 08:36
    In complete contrast to this situation, at one point in Massachusetts the venue for the METG High School Festival finals was asking for certificates of inspection from schools' fire departments and all their fire departments basically refused to be bothered.

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    Joseph Gels
    Theatre Teacher
    Boston Latin School
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-21-2022 11:39
    Just be sure you don't upset the fire inspector or fire marshall.  You won't want to be on their radar or you'll never get anything done.

    ------------------------------
    John Perry
    Retired Theatre Teacher
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-22-2022 14:50
    Beth - these are all good answers, but I think the 2 key takeaways are emphasizing the temporary nature of the set and the idea of having a meeting.  If the meeting doesn't easily solve the problem, politely make the fire official show you or cite which code, chapter and subchapter he/she is applying.  If it exists, it should be either the Colorado state building code, which is mostly like based on the Uniform Building Code, or it's some portion of the NFPA, like NFPA 80 (Nat'l Fire Protection Assn).

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    Rose Steele
    Theatre Consultant
    Rose Steele Theatre Consulting
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-24-2022 07:09
    I would recommend reaching out to your Local building inspectors office, they can refer you to the location in the code that calls out the exemption for film or theater sets in the current version of the code your area is using I have seen the exemption in the 2018 IBC and am sure I have seen in in the UBO as well.

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    Jerry Onik
    V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
    Heartland Scenic Studio
    NE
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-24-2022 08:56
    Scenery is considered temporary and and art installation. I have never known it to require building permits in any state I have ever worked in. That being said, fire marshals are important people to befriend and we typically work with ours to make sure they are happy. I did have this happen once, 20 years ago, when I first started at my current school. The firemarshal came through before the set was in place and saw the stacks of platforms and flats and said we couldn't store all that lumber under the stage light. I showed him the drawings, and the flame retardant we use on the set pieces, as well as out calendar for set up and that resolved the issue. He just didn't understand what we were doing. Communicate and make sure your admin has your back before contacting the city. Best of luck.

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    Jodi Williams
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-25-2022 02:18
    Hi Elizabeth

    I know this can be a shock to the system, especially when you have been building sets for a long time with none of this type of push back.  I have been a TD for about 40 years and I did have this happen once.  I was the TD for the largest Class A (same as LORT A in the US) theatre in town, and I also taught one day a week as served as the TD for a local college.  In short, we build a multi-level set at the college and one day I got a panicked call from the department chair that fire marshal was there to shut down the theatre due to the set.

    I hopped in my car and popped over for a conversation.  The FM said many of the same things I am hearing that your AHJ said to you, and I played the role of "fan-girl".  I acted star struck and asked if also got to review and approve all the plans for the big theatre downtown.  When replied in the affirmative, I handed him my business card and introduced myself as the TD for that big ole theatre and asked him which of my staff members he normally dealt with.  In the end, after all the posturing was over, he admitted that he was just concerned by seeing the second floor on the set, and not knowing anything about it, he was using his power to drag someone into the picture who DID know about construction to make sure it was not going to collapse.

    After all was said and done, we parted friends and I invited him to be my "plus one" to a barbeque at the home of the head fire marshal for the city - oddly he had not been invited :-).

    Over to you - There is a lot of very good advice posted by the gifted people in this community. 
    > Never ever ever anger the fire marshal.  Even if your position is on solid ground and he is flat out wrong, they have very long memories.  Proving him wrong may win this battle, but he can make things rocky for you for many year.
    > Consult your district's risk management people.  If they stand behind you, the issue may go away.
    > If there is a big theatre near you, ask their TD if they need this level of documentation for sets and get some advice from their TD.  Be careful about throwing them under the bus, "Well, the Colorado Awesome Shakespeare Group doesn't need a permit, so neither should we.". . .probably not the best way to go.
    > Read the advice from George Ledo about three times.
    > Rose's info is also good, but also look at the codebook he is citing from.  Not all codebooks apply to all situations.

    Also - I did a little research for you.  https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2021P2/chapter-1-scope-and-administration  The Uniform Building Code was replaced in 2021 with the International Building Code.  In section [A] 105.2 - Work Exempt from Permit, it states: Exemptions from permits requirements of this code shall not be deemed to authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction.  Permits shall not be required for the following:
    8. Temporary motion picture, television and theater stage sets and scenery.
    > drops mic<

    ------------------------------
    Tracy Nunnally
    NIU - Professor/TD/Area Head (tnunnally@niu.edu)
    Vertigo - Owner/System Designer (tracy@getvertigo.com)
    ETCP Certified Rigger/Trainer/Employer
    I.A.T.S.E.
    DeKalb, Illinois
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Do you need a state building permit to build a set?

    Posted 10-26-2022 17:13
    Thanks so much for everyone's input!  In short, the outcome was that it was determined that the fire department has no jurisdiction over building codes (he wasn't citing fire safety, but fall safety), and that because the structure is "temporary" it doesn't fall under the same codes as a building structure.

    That said, the set builder (a teacher) still did reinforce some areas that were called out.  Always better safe than sorry.

    ------------------------------
    Beth Rand, EBMS
    Educational Lighting Designer
    School Theatre Operations Specialist
    District Auditorium Specialist for SVVSD


    RandCDLLC@gmail.com
    Westminster, CO

    www.PRESETT.org
    Tech theatre books
    Free downloads
    NEW: TECHIE T-SHIRT SHOP!
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


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