Open Forum

  • 1.  To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-01-2016 12:45

    All:

    I'm a high school theatre teacher and I'm contemplating going back to graduate school for a PhD. Currently, I hold an MFA in Theatre and want to get feedback from the community. Many in my school district have no clue what an MFA is and go as far as saying "but it's only a masters degree". As you can imagine this comment cuts me to the bone as anyone with an MFA knows it's far more than just a masters degree. So now I am at a crossroads. Should I stay at my current education level and be paid the same as any teacher who completes a traditional 30 hour masters program, compel the district to recongnize that the Master of Fone Arts is a terminal degree and should be placed in the same pay grade as other terminal degrees (not likely to happen), or return to school, taking on more debt, to earn a PhD? 

    We are talking a $6,500 difference in pay each year. So it is substantial. What are your thoughts? Also, should I pursue a PhD in Theatre or the EdD? I'm inclined to pursue another degree in theatre. Do any of you with MFAs experience similar issues in your school districts? Is the MFA a common degree for high school teachers or am I in the minority? 

    -Riley

    ------------------------------
    W. Riley Braem, M.F.A.
    Theatre Teacher
    Northwest High School
    Clarksville, TN
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-02-2016 06:08
    You might want to check out this link from NAST regarding the usefulness of a PH.d in theater.
    http://nast.arts-accredit.org/index.jsp?page=FAQ+16

    You might want to weigh the cost of the degree verses the wages you could earn in ? years. It might not be worth it.
    It is frustrating that your district won't give you the extra credits for the MFA. I am lucky that my district allows up to 90 credits. It might take some convincing on your part with a union rep to petition for a change.It always feels like the arts are trying to justify something.

    Mrs. Kathy Cannarozzi Harris
    SVUSD Visual and Performing Arts Coordinator K-12
    Mission Viejo High School Theatre Director
    Office - 949.586.0289
    Fax - 949.830.0782
    www.mvhsdrama.com

    ------Original Message------

    All:

    I'm a high school theatre teacher and I'm contemplating going back to graduate school for a PhD. Currently, I hold an MFA in Theatre and want to get feedback from the community. Many in my school district have no clue what an MFA is and go as far as saying "but it's only a masters degree". As you can imagine this comment cuts me to the bone as anyone with an MFA knows it's far more than just a masters degree. So now I am at a crossroads. Should I stay at my current education level and be paid the same as any teacher who completes a traditional 30 hour masters program, compel the district to recongnize that the Master of Fone Arts is a terminal degree and should be placed in the same pay grade as other terminal degrees (not likely to happen), or return to school, taking on more debt, to earn a PhD? 

    We are talking a $6,500 difference in pay each year. So it is substantial. What are your thoughts? Also, should I pursue a PhD in Theatre or the EdD? I'm inclined to pursue another degree in theatre. Do any of you with MFAs experience similar issues in your school districts? Is the MFA a common degree for high school teachers or am I in the minority? 

    -Riley

    ------------------------------
    W. Riley Braem, M.F.A.
    Theatre Teacher
    Northwest High School
    Clarksville, TN
    ------------------------------


  • 3.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-02-2016 09:17
    Edited by John Perry 01-02-2016 09:18

    I have a MA in Drama and in our district pay level is dependent on how many hours above your degree you earn. A PhD would only give me app a $1300 increase in pay. I thought about working toward a PhD just for the enjoyment of being back in a college setting and being able to discuss theatre on a higher level.

    But, everyone that has a PhD has told me that if I don't need it, don't do it! It's at least 2 years of work, more realistically 3 years plus your dissertation. And all it takes is one "problem person" on your committee to screw all your work up. 

    I think your time would be better served in working to get your district to recognize your MFA as a terminal degree. Use your time to get letters of support from other school systems, universities, professors , etc. You would be doing yourself and others a service. 

    I grew up close to Clarksville and I know how conservative the area can be.

    ------------------------------
    John Perry
    Drama Instructor
    Atherton High School
    Louisville KY

    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-02-2016 10:10

    I'd be interested in hearing this thread of comments, as well. My MA is not a terminal degree, as it was in Performance and Media-Education, so I could pursue something further along those lines. The issue includes, as is pointed out, the cost versus the (literal) payback, but also the time and scheduling of classes (I can't afford to stop working) as well as the availability of relevant programs.

    Looking forward to the discussion.

    ------------------------------
    Lori Constable
    Teacher; director of Drama
    Independent District 112
    Chanhassen MN



  • 5.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-02-2016 16:05

    There is a trend, in order to keep costs down, to avoid hiring teachers with degrees beyond the Ed.D. in non-academic (re: non-essential) positions.  While having a Masters is all but a requirement now, some places would actually be discouraged from hiring you with a Ph.D.  If another candidate with less experience and a lower level degree is up for the same job, you would be considered "over-qualified" and may not get the gig.

    Of course, all of this is moot if your ultimate goal is to publish, consult, or teach at the university level. If that is the case, the Ph.D. is the only way to go.

    Good luck with your plans.

    ------------------------------
    Josh Ruben
    Fine Arts Head, Northwest Whitfield
    Chattanooga TN



  • 6.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-03-2016 17:25

    There is the financial consideration by the main office. You might consider holding off until you have some type of tenure.

    ------------------------------
    John Perry
    Drama Instructor
    Atherton High School
    Louisville KY

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-02-2016 19:13

    I too have been considering a PhD. I have an MS (in Entertainment Business Management) and I just switched to a school district that considers my position – a high school Theatre Manager – to be a certificated position (I’m certificated too). But apparently my university (Full Sail) where I got my masters degree (since I last worked in a certificated position) is ACCSC accredited, and apparently the State of WA does not recognize that accreditation for their certificated pay scale. So I am currently being paid at the BA pay scale level (a $6000/yr difference). Ironic that I work with students in a CTE/“trade” subject – tech theatre - but my degree from a “trade” university is not recognized by the State. I’m working on that one… but back to the PhD issue.

    I too would like to get my PhD in education or in theatre, or perhaps even in business (there don’t seem to be any PhDs for high school theatre managers per se)? I’m questioning whether to go a brick and mortar school or to do the degree online. Does anyone know of any good online PhDs for theatre/education/management? One university I actually started a PhD in management at online was CalU (California University). They were reasonably priced and “regionally” accredited, but I quit after my first research assignment about Starbucks’ marketing – not quite sure how that would help me with high school theatre management. What about universities that will give you some credits towards your life experience – I’ve been a high school Theatre Manager for nearly 6 years, and a lighting designer/technician for long before that, and have learned a thing or two. Does anyone know of any online universities that will give you credit for experience? Phoenix and WGU do, but not for PhDs. And the cost? Don’t universities pay their PhD students? Perhaps only if you ‘work’ for your room and board (teaching classes, etc). I suppose, though, that a PhD is a bit of a time commitment and a bit of an expense just for the privilege of calling myself Dr. Rand...!

    There is no difference in the pay scale in Washington State between MA+90 (masters degree plus 90 credits - which is what I should be) and a PhD. I can either fight the masters accreditation issue or get a PhD – they might take me the same length of time! Of course I could always just buy at PhD online for about $300.00…

    ------------------------------
    Elizabeth Rand
    High School Theatre Management Consultant
    Rand Consulting and Design
    Woodinville WA



  • 8.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-03-2016 15:53

    Walter,

    I have often thought about going back to school for a PhD. I have an MFA in performance, and in my experience that has been regarded as a respectable terminal degree. The salary difference you mention is quite striking, but perhaps you should look into other school systems/areas for a salary comparative. If I was in your position with the seeming lack of acknowledgement for your efforts and schooling to get your masters, I would look around elsewhere. Why not check out some programs and see if there's a good fit for you? There might be a TA-situation which could help with some of the costs.

    Good Luck!

    Jen

    ------------------------------
    Jennifer Jordan
    Drama and Dance Director
    Miss Hall's School
    Pittsfield MA



  • 9.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-04-2016 08:43

    Hi Walter,

    I can't offer you much encouragement on this one. I was in the same boat. My district does not recognize the MFA, though I understand a few districts in my state do. I fought with them for about six years before I gave up. That started about 30 years ago and nothing has changed here.

    Good luck with your decision.

    Bob

    ------------------------------
    Robert Smith
    VA Co-Chapter Director
    James Madison High School
    Vienna



  • 10.  RE: To PhD or Not to PhD?

    Posted 01-04-2016 10:20

    Interesting question, and thread, indeed.

    I have an MFA and work at a Catholic HS in San Francisco.  For years I worked but was not compensated for my degree because the Archdiocese doesn't pay for the MFA unless you also have a credential.  I went back to school and got that credential and it made a $5,000 difference in my pay.  Now I'm at the point (at 58 years old) where I have a great paycheck and a lot of freedom but not the same freedom I had as a freelance when I could "take this job and shove it" when I wanted.  So I deal with the drama {sic} of the parochial system and keep focused on what I do with teaching Catholic boys who to act.

    PhD would garner you more debt and, as stated, unless you are tenured you have no assurance that the job will be there after your schooling.

    Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    Valerie O'Riordan
    Drama Director, MFA, AEA #fftfellow
    Archbishop Riordan High School
    San Francisco CA voriordan@riordanhs.org

    Original Message