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Hello all! I'm hoping someone out here can help me with this...

I'm starting on Les Mis which will be my show next fall and am interested in investing in the purchase or rental of some moving heads. For the purposes of Les Mis I need them for spotlight purposes on one or two actors at a time and don't necessarily need them to have Gobo Abilities but color properties would be preferable.

I'm trying to figure out what kind I should be looking at and I have little experience with them. As you can imagine, I have a limited budget for them as well. I can mount them on my electrics on stage so distance isn't too significant a factor but I want to make the best and most economical choice.

I have a Congo Jr. lighting board so it appears that it can easily handle the addition of moving heads but I may be wrong. Any advice in the matter would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to acquire two of them and am looking at spending $2K or less on the purchase or rental of them.

 Thanks so much!

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Hello,

The $2000 you mentioned for rental  should be more than enough, however, using moving heads for follow spots is problematic in that they may not be able to move as you need them to. 

 

Depending on your lighting board (and I am unfamiliar with the capabilities of the Congo Jr.), they may not be able to move in straight lines as you may need. If you do decide to do this, I think LED fixtures might be easier to work with. Their power requirements are more easily met (120v vs. 240v) and they weigh less. 

I would recommend looking at Vari-lite fixtures (spot and not wash)

Best wishes,

Dana 

 

 

 

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Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN
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Hi! A Congo Jr. is more than capable of operating a moving light. It's actually better equipped for that as opposed to stationary lighting. (Ie- it's got so many more capabilities than I'm currently using)

 Are the Vari-Lite moving or stationary LEDs? I'm also looking at replacing some of my current lights with LEDs. We currently have 27 Source Four Jr., 5 6571 Series Triple Lamps for Cyc Lights, and 36 Source Four Pars/ Source Four ParNels.

I'm thinking I'd like to replace some of my Source Four Pars/ Source Four ParNels with some LEDs. Has anyone had any luck trading their older lights in for new ones at a reduced cost?

In terms of follow spot capabilities, I have one spotlight but where it is positioned means for a very "show" kind of lighting effect when used as a follow spot. I typically only use it for Chorus shows or "shows within a show" like in Cabaret, Chicago, or Anything Goes. Since the show is Les Mis it must be much more subtle than that. In terms of isolation and the like I'm typically okay with using my Source Four Jrs but feel that I won't be able to stretch them quite as far as is needed for this show.

Advice?

------------------------------
Victoria Kesling Councill
Chapter Director - VA EdTA/ Virginia Thespians
Theatre Director- Fine & Performing Arts Department NKHS
Artistic Director - NKHS Trojan Theatre
Artistic Director - Kent England Exchange Production
Virginia Commonwealth University BFA Theatre Education, BFA Art Education '08
University of Houston - MA in Theatre Candidate '16

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art." - Konstantin Stanislavski
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-02-2015 05:58
From: Dana Taylor
Subject: Moving Heads for Follow Spots

Hello,

The $2000 you mentioned for rental  should be more than enough, however, using moving heads for follow spots is problematic in that they may not be able to move as you need them to. 

 

Depending on your lighting board (and I am unfamiliar with the capabilities of the Congo Jr.), they may not be able to move in straight lines as you may need. If you do decide to do this, I think LED fixtures might be easier to work with. Their power requirements are more easily met (120v vs. 240v) and they weigh less. 

I would recommend looking at Vari-lite fixtures (spot and not wash)

Best wishes,

Dana 

 

 

 

------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN
------------------------------

Hi Victoria,

I know I'm catching onto this thread a bit late, but have you considered using regular old SourceFours with a gel (or ColorSources, the LED equivalent that wouldn't require a gel)?

My school (and several other venues around the community) have full-size followspots but rarely use them because their beam angle doesn't define the actors on stage well.

Instead, we install two or more SourceFours in the catwalk to get the better 45° angle and have our operators located there.

However, depending on the brightness of your show, the SourceFours might not cut through the light enough and be able to make much of a difference.

Hope this helps!

------------------------------
Amy Ariel
Henrico VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-02-2015 08:34
From: Victoria Kesling Councill
Subject: Moving Heads for Follow Spots

Hi! A Congo Jr. is more than capable of operating a moving light. It's actually better equipped for that as opposed to stationary lighting. (Ie- it's got so many more capabilities than I'm currently using)

 Are the Vari-Lite moving or stationary LEDs? I'm also looking at replacing some of my current lights with LEDs. We currently have 27 Source Four Jr., 5 6571 Series Triple Lamps for Cyc Lights, and 36 Source Four Pars/ Source Four ParNels.

I'm thinking I'd like to replace some of my Source Four Pars/ Source Four ParNels with some LEDs. Has anyone had any luck trading their older lights in for new ones at a reduced cost?

In terms of follow spot capabilities, I have one spotlight but where it is positioned means for a very "show" kind of lighting effect when used as a follow spot. I typically only use it for Chorus shows or "shows within a show" like in Cabaret, Chicago, or Anything Goes. Since the show is Les Mis it must be much more subtle than that. In terms of isolation and the like I'm typically okay with using my Source Four Jrs but feel that I won't be able to stretch them quite as far as is needed for this show.

Advice?

------------------------------
Victoria Kesling Councill
Chapter Director - VA EdTA/ Virginia Thespians
Theatre Director- Fine & Performing Arts Department NKHS
Artistic Director - NKHS Trojan Theatre
Artistic Director - Kent England Exchange Production
Virginia Commonwealth University BFA Theatre Education, BFA Art Education '08
University of Houston - MA in Theatre Candidate '16

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art." - Konstantin Stanislavski
------------------------------

Hi Victoria.  To avoid a presentational "show" effect for more realistic musicals, we replaced the lower pipe on the follow spot stand with a shorter pipe, so we could operate it from the Catwalk/1st FOH position.  Amy had the same solution.  This increased the angle to approximately 45 degrees, instead of the almost full front light from the control booth level.  This all but eliminated the shadows of the performers that were cast on scenery when the follow spots were on the control booth level.  The other thing was that we softened focus a little on the follow spots so there wasn't a defined circle of light, but just an area that had a little kick in intensity.

One thing to check is that when you plug a follow spot into your FOH, make sure your follow spot lamp is not overloading  the circuit/dimmer.  Many dimmers are 1,200 watts capacity, and some follow spot lamps can be 1,500 watts.

The other thing to make sure of is that the follow spot(s) are secured to the  FOH, and the operators are wearing fall arrest gear, depending on your FOH/catwalk.  If there's difficult access to the FOH, this idea would not work at all.

Bob Fowler 

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Robert Fowler
Co-Developer
Interactive Educational Video, LLC
Chesterfield MO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-02-2015 13:03
From: Amy Ariel
Subject: Moving Heads for Follow Spots

Hi Victoria,

I know I'm catching onto this thread a bit late, but have you considered using regular old SourceFours with a gel (or ColorSources, the LED equivalent that wouldn't require a gel)?

My school (and several other venues around the community) have full-size followspots but rarely use them because their beam angle doesn't define the actors on stage well.

Instead, we install two or more SourceFours in the catwalk to get the better 45° angle and have our operators located there.

However, depending on the brightness of your show, the SourceFours might not cut through the light enough and be able to make much of a difference.

Hope this helps!

------------------------------
Amy Ariel
Henrico VA
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 03-02-2015 08:34
From: Victoria Kesling Councill
Subject: Moving Heads for Follow Spots

Hi! A Congo Jr. is more than capable of operating a moving light. It's actually better equipped for that as opposed to stationary lighting. (Ie- it's got so many more capabilities than I'm currently using)

 Are the Vari-Lite moving or stationary LEDs? I'm also looking at replacing some of my current lights with LEDs. We currently have 27 Source Four Jr., 5 6571 Series Triple Lamps for Cyc Lights, and 36 Source Four Pars/ Source Four ParNels.

I'm thinking I'd like to replace some of my Source Four Pars/ Source Four ParNels with some LEDs. Has anyone had any luck trading their older lights in for new ones at a reduced cost?

In terms of follow spot capabilities, I have one spotlight but where it is positioned means for a very "show" kind of lighting effect when used as a follow spot. I typically only use it for Chorus shows or "shows within a show" like in Cabaret, Chicago, or Anything Goes. Since the show is Les Mis it must be much more subtle than that. In terms of isolation and the like I'm typically okay with using my Source Four Jrs but feel that I won't be able to stretch them quite as far as is needed for this show.

Advice?

------------------------------
Victoria Kesling Councill
Chapter Director - VA EdTA/ Virginia Thespians
Theatre Director- Fine & Performing Arts Department NKHS
Artistic Director - NKHS Trojan Theatre
Artistic Director - Kent England Exchange Production
Virginia Commonwealth University BFA Theatre Education, BFA Art Education '08
University of Houston - MA in Theatre Candidate '16

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art." - Konstantin Stanislavski
------------------------------

I would call your local rental house, and see what they recommend.  A mover with just a white spot is easy enough to work with, but depending on how far your throw is intensity might be an issue on cheaper lights.  You'll also need to be able to run data/DMX to the moving light - and your rental house is probably your best spot there too.

 My theater owns a couple for training, but we use them all the time.  Unless you're going to frequently use them, renting will save you a great deal of headache on maintenance and storage.

If you have a booster group and can purchase used items, you might check Craigslist as well.  I helped a club with four Chauvet movers they bought for $20.  They were in pretty bad shape, but were perfect for spotlights in the club, which is what they needed.

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Richard Fairchild
Phoenix AZ
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All good comments. I like Generico led movers for short throw applications they are in the high $100's each. But they are narrow, and use color mixing, not white light. I would love to find a white led mover that puts out considerable lumens. I use four of them together to get some decent coverage.

 

The main question came to my mind is: why would you want to replace follow spots with moving lights? They really are not the same thing. The board will be able to do the move the same way every night. I have yet to meet the actor who could/would do that.

Follow spots are quite cheap and, in education, labor is free. 

Movers are expensive and programing can take some time (learning curve along with writing the actual cues). If the actor misses the mark, you can not correct easily.

 

John

 

 

 

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John Hauer
Hillsborough CA
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My main concern with a follow spot is we only have one and we cannot put them in an elevated position. Our house has no balcony and is a very slight rake. The light ends up being very frontal and makes everything quite flat. Not to mention, the distance requires one that costs well over $1K. So buying an additional one greatly out prices the cost of a moving head.

------------------------------
Victoria Kesling Councill
Chapter Director - VA EdTA/ Virginia Thespians
Theatre Director- Fine & Performing Arts Department NKHS
Artistic Director - NKHS Trojan Theatre
Artistic Director - Kent England Exchange Production
Virginia Commonwealth University BFA Theatre Education, BFA Art Education '08
University of Houston - MA in Theatre Candidate '16

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art." - Konstantin Stanislavski
------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 03-02-2015 14:10
From: John Hauer
Subject: Moving Heads for Follow Spots

All good comments. I like Generico led movers for short throw applications they are in the high $100's each. But they are narrow, and use color mixing, not white light. I would love to find a white led mover that puts out considerable lumens. I use four of them together to get some decent coverage.

 

The main question came to my mind is: why would you want to replace follow spots with moving lights? They really are not the same thing. The board will be able to do the move the same way every night. I have yet to meet the actor who could/would do that.

Follow spots are quite cheap and, in education, labor is free. 

Movers are expensive and programing can take some time (learning curve along with writing the actual cues). If the actor misses the mark, you can not correct easily.

 

John

 

 

 

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John Hauer
Hillsborough CA
------------------------------

Hi,

I suppose this really goes back to your artistic vision of the show. If you are trying to highlight moments in the show (Valjean on his deathbed or when he is singing "Bring Him Home") you can indeed use a moving light (although it may not need to move much). 

The functionality you desire will come at a financial cost as well as a cost for the time spent trying to learn to program the fixtures. Good fixtures with the control you seek and the output you need can cost thousands of dollars. There are less expensive alternatives but generally they will lack the output you seek. In that you seem new to the technology and all of the challenges that using them will entail, it may be in your production's best interest (and your sanity) to come up with a different solution.

If you decide to go ahead, note that arc source moving lights can require 220v to operate. LED's can use 120v and neither should be plugged into dimmable circuits. You will need to verify what your system can handle. Also, movers can be quite heavy (50+ pounds although LED fixtures are generally lighter). Can your rigging safely accommodate the load? As well, you will need to run DMX from your board to the lights. Is there a reasonable way to run the cable? As a novice, you likely should plan on much more time for programming (even the addition of two fixtures can really start adding to the time).

Going back to your vision for the show, is it the movement you want or is it the color temperature associated with arc source or LED fixtures? I'm referring to that almost blue/white light that appears very different from conventional tungsten based fixtures. If it is that, you can use gel (Lee 201, etc.) that changes the apparent color temperature of the light.

I am not trying to talk you out of trying this technology but this is a situation where it is indeed "harder than it looks".

Thanks,

Dana

------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-03-2015 07:34
From: Victoria Kesling Councill
Subject: Moving Heads for Follow Spots

My main concern with a follow spot is we only have one and we cannot put them in an elevated position. Our house has no balcony and is a very slight rake. The light ends up being very frontal and makes everything quite flat. Not to mention, the distance requires one that costs well over $1K. So buying an additional one greatly out prices the cost of a moving head.

------------------------------
Victoria Kesling Councill
Chapter Director - VA EdTA/ Virginia Thespians
Theatre Director- Fine & Performing Arts Department NKHS
Artistic Director - NKHS Trojan Theatre
Artistic Director - Kent England Exchange Production
Virginia Commonwealth University BFA Theatre Education, BFA Art Education '08
University of Houston - MA in Theatre Candidate '16

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art." - Konstantin Stanislavski
------------------------------