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Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Have you read the script?!? It basically is about a bad man who beats his wife. Dies in a robbery. Comes back meets his teenage daughter and hits her. Then has both the mother and daughter say the hits felt like a kiss. Dont do it!

------------------------------
Joseph Gels
Theatre Teacher
Boston Latin School
Boston MA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Hi James,

I have a unique perspective on Carousel having played Billy Bigelow in an equity production and directing it years later in regional theatre. Directing it especially, I came to realize the show's serious flaws. I was especially disturbed by the casual treatment of domestic abuse, particularly when Billy returns from the afterlife to "help" his daughter and winds up slapping her across the face in frustration, She asks her mother about how someone hitting you so hard could feel like a kiss. Her mother, remembering her own abuse at Billy's hands tells her daughter that yes, it's possible. WHAT??? 

We reached out and got permission to cut that bit of dialogue from R&H, but there are plenty of other clunky moments. There is some nice music, to be sure, like "You'll Never Walk Alone" and the duet (Twin Soliloquies) between Billy and Julie are timeless. However, the story has not aged well in my opinion.

You know your kids and program the best, and this is just my opinion. I think, however, your hesitation is warranted.

Cheers,

Will

------------------------------
William J. Eyerly, Ph. D, Ed. D
Director of Theatre K-12
The Village School of Naples
Executive Director
Gainesville Association for the Creative Arts
Fort Myers, FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

We did Carousel 4 years ago for our big school musical. I don't regret it. It was a really great educational experience for the kids and our audiences.
Regarding the domestic abuse issues, it turned out to be quite a memorable discussion-starter for all of our kids.  We brought in multiple counselors and social workers into various rehearsals who discussed with the cast domestic abuse issues and how they relate to the show.  We also did talkbacks on the subject with our audiences.  We staged the show in such a way that we did not give Billy a redeemable ending, and the fact that he fell back into his abusive ways even as an "angel" was staged as kind of a tragic ending.  We did not cut the infamous exchange between Julie and her daughter, but staged it similarly to how Nick Hytner did with the National Theatre/Broadway revival. In the end, I feel when we produced the show, it did not promote or condone domestic abuse, in fact it created the opposite effect for our students and audiences.  It was very powerful and moving for a lot of them.  With that said, I can totally see or understand how many would want to just stay away from the subject matter altogether.  I get that as well.
Working with such an important score in the history of musical theatre was also a great experience.  There is nothing better than the If I Loved You sequence for studying how and why musical theatre is effective.  On the other hand, the Clambake song was one of the hardest songs to stage since it is so...uh...stupid ( sorry for lack of a better term).
Any way, this show was sandwiched between In the Heights, Mary Poppins, and Les Miserables for us, and so created quite a good contrast and I think provided the kids who were in those 4 shows in their high school careers quite a varied musical theatre education.
OK, so long story short: yes I think there is a lot of educational value in producing Carousel. As long as you are very careful and deliberate with the message you send to your students and audiences regarding the subject matter.

------------------------------
Joshua Long
Salt Lake City UT
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

I felt exactly as Joseph did about Carousel until I saw it at Olney Theatre Center in Olney, Maryland, in 2015.  In that beautiful production, I saw the potential for a high school production.  I thinking the bullying and domestic abuse would have an impact on high school students today, given thoughtful direction.  (OTC posted a behind-the-scenes video and a 46-second commercial on YouTube you could watch to get an idea of the look of the show.)

Had I had the dancers to do the show at my high school, I would have included a program insert directing people suffering from domestic abuse to Our Voice, the local crisis intervention and women's shelter.

I'm glad to hear that Will was able to get permission to leave out a bit that he found too objectionable.

------------------------------
C. J. Breland
Retired Theatre Arts Educator
Asheville NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2019 11:33
From: Joshua Long
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

We did Carousel 4 years ago for our big school musical. I don't regret it. It was a really great educational experience for the kids and our audiences.
Regarding the domestic abuse issues, it turned out to be quite a memorable discussion-starter for all of our kids.  We brought in multiple counselors and social workers into various rehearsals who discussed with the cast domestic abuse issues and how they relate to the show.  We also did talkbacks on the subject with our audiences.  We staged the show in such a way that we did not give Billy a redeemable ending, and the fact that he fell back into his abusive ways even as an "angel" was staged as kind of a tragic ending.  We did not cut the infamous exchange between Julie and her daughter, but staged it similarly to how Nick Hytner did with the National Theatre/Broadway revival. In the end, I feel when we produced the show, it did not promote or condone domestic abuse, in fact it created the opposite effect for our students and audiences.  It was very powerful and moving for a lot of them.  With that said, I can totally see or understand how many would want to just stay away from the subject matter altogether.  I get that as well.
Working with such an important score in the history of musical theatre was also a great experience.  There is nothing better than the If I Loved You sequence for studying how and why musical theatre is effective.  On the other hand, the Clambake song was one of the hardest songs to stage since it is so...uh...stupid ( sorry for lack of a better term).
Any way, this show was sandwiched between In the Heights, Mary Poppins, and Les Miserables for us, and so created quite a good contrast and I think provided the kids who were in those 4 shows in their high school careers quite a varied musical theatre education.
OK, so long story short: yes I think there is a lot of educational value in producing Carousel. As long as you are very careful and deliberate with the message you send to your students and audiences regarding the subject matter.

------------------------------
Joshua Long
Salt Lake City UT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

With all due respect to my colleagues, I have always struggled with the notion that Carousel somehow condones, or at least minimizes, domestic abuse.  Billy is clearly in trouble with the Eternal Authorities for a number of things, including such abuse.  When he slaps Louise, the Heavenly Friend even castigates him for it, sarcastically saying that that seems to be Billy's answer to every problem - hit someone.  As for Julie's response that it is possible for someone to hit you very hard, but for it not to hurt at all, that very accurately represents the psychology of many abuse victims even today, and certainly in the New England of the late nineteenth century where the show takes place.  To depict that onstage no more condones such thoughts than Romeo and Juliet condones suicide.  Theatre often shows life as it is, warts and all.  Billy does stupid and terrible things; not only does he suffer for it, but people around him suffer for it, too.  I do like the emendation in the Hytner production that had Billy say, "No!" when Louise asked her question and Julie answered it, as if he had finally seen the consequences of his actions and was horrified at what he had done to his wife and daughter.  Perhaps what bothers some people is that the musical, unlike its source play, ultimately allows Billy redemption; the judge in each of us would like to see Billy punished for what he has done.  But that would compromise the real message of the show, which is that even people who are guilty of horrible things can redeem themselves.  The trick there is to make it clear to the audience that Billy has earned that, as he encourages both Louise and Julie to believe Dr. Seldon's speech about not limiting yourself because of the mistakes of others in your life.  If you don't have actors who can bring that subtext across, it will be easy for audiences to misinterpret the final scene, and that is part of what makes this show so hard to pull off.  But it's my favorite musical, and it almost always leaves me a puddle of tears at the end.  Richard Rodgers counted it as his favorite among his own shows, because, he said, it tries to say the most, and says it the best.

------------------------------
Jeff Grove
Theatre Teacher, Aesthetics Department Chair
Stanton College Preparatory School
Jacksonville FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

I couldn't agree more - with a strong adherence to delivering the text clearly, the audience should understand the deep psychological wounds that lead to violence and the scars on the people violence touches.  The playwright, in no way, condones violence, but does make the case that many victims of domestic violence experience - that is to say, love can look very different from the inside and outside.  Redemption is possible, if there is a belief in a better beyond.  If the perpetrator of the violence believes that they can make amends and they take action to do so, whether successful or not, the wounded party may be able to move forward with their life knowing there is acknowledgement of the crime and a desire to make things as right, as possible.  This play has many "moments" in the text, that usually are breezed over because it is a musical.  To be able to deliver the goods inherent to the work is to do good work!

------------------------------
Janet Van Wess
Theatre Arts Director
Liberty High School - Troupe 6644
Hillsboro, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-16-2019 09:21
From: Jeff Grove
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

With all due respect to my colleagues, I have always struggled with the notion that Carousel somehow condones, or at least minimizes, domestic abuse.  Billy is clearly in trouble with the Eternal Authorities for a number of things, including such abuse.  When he slaps Louise, the Heavenly Friend even castigates him for it, sarcastically saying that that seems to be Billy's answer to every problem - hit someone.  As for Julie's response that it is possible for someone to hit you very hard, but for it not to hurt at all, that very accurately represents the psychology of many abuse victims even today, and certainly in the New England of the late nineteenth century where the show takes place.  To depict that onstage no more condones such thoughts than Romeo and Juliet condones suicide.  Theatre often shows life as it is, warts and all.  Billy does stupid and terrible things; not only does he suffer for it, but people around him suffer for it, too.  I do like the emendation in the Hytner production that had Billy say, "No!" when Louise asked her question and Julie answered it, as if he had finally seen the consequences of his actions and was horrified at what he had done to his wife and daughter.  Perhaps what bothers some people is that the musical, unlike its source play, ultimately allows Billy redemption; the judge in each of us would like to see Billy punished for what he has done.  But that would compromise the real message of the show, which is that even people who are guilty of horrible things can redeem themselves.  The trick there is to make it clear to the audience that Billy has earned that, as he encourages both Louise and Julie to believe Dr. Seldon's speech about not limiting yourself because of the mistakes of others in your life.  If you don't have actors who can bring that subtext across, it will be easy for audiences to misinterpret the final scene, and that is part of what makes this show so hard to pull off.  But it's my favorite musical, and it almost always leaves me a puddle of tears at the end.  Richard Rodgers counted it as his favorite among his own shows, because, he said, it tries to say the most, and says it the best.

------------------------------
Jeff Grove
Theatre Teacher, Aesthetics Department Chair
Stanton College Preparatory School
Jacksonville FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

I directed it with my previous school a few years ago and it is one of my all-time favorite productions. I completely disagree with the suggestion that the musical condones (or excuses, or encourages) violence. It is a play about the cycle of violence and how when people are treated in violent ways they learn how to communicate via violence. If you have the singers and orchestra- and if you can treat the play with the sensitivity it needs- you can have a really wonderful production.

------------------------------
William Addis
Chair of Visual and Performing Arts
Westtown School
West Chester PA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, especially those of you who have done the show with high school students. I have read the script, seen the most recent revival, even been to Lincoln Center library and watched their recording of another revival, so the script is familiar to me, but those of you who provided insights about producing it with high school students is exactly what I was looking for.

I haven't made any firm decision yet, but we are proably leaning away from the choice for other reasons.

Have a brilliant day,

J. Harvey Stone

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Thank you, all, for such a thoughtful and enlightening discussion. That's why I love this forum. Theatre educators can transform problematic material like this into powerful "teachable moments." I appreciate how R&H allowed for the script changes. What pleases me most about this discussion is that high schools are still doing the classics like "Carousel." I was a little put off by the lack of classics on the EdTa "most performed" list recently. It is imperative that, as educators, we expose students - and audiences - to the musicals of the Golden Age of Broadway.

------------------------------
Roger Paolini
Buffalo NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2019 13:26
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, especially those of you who have done the show with high school students. I have read the script, seen the most recent revival, even been to Lincoln Center library and watched their recording of another revival, so the script is familiar to me, but those of you who provided insights about producing it with high school students is exactly what I was looking for.

I haven't made any firm decision yet, but we are proably leaning away from the choice for other reasons.

Have a brilliant day,

J. Harvey Stone

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2019 19:22
From: James Stone
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

Hi all,

I'm looking for some insight from anyone who might have done Carousel with high school students. If you have put up Carousel can you let me know what you loved? What you wish you could have a second shot at?

We generated lots of interest with Newsies last year, so I have plenty of interest, experienced dancers, and vocalists. I want to find something that will let me feature multiple young men and ladies, but also keep the ensemble interested. I'm not sure if I have found that in Carousel or not.

Harvey

------------------------------
J. Harvey Stone
Teacher/Director
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Original Message------

Thank you, all, for such a thoughtful and enlightening discussion. That's why I love this forum. Theatre educators can transform problematic material like this into powerful "teachable moments." I appreciate how R&H allowed for the script changes. What pleases me most about this discussion is that high schools are still doing the classics like "Carousel." I was a little put off by the lack of classics on the EdTa "most performed" list recently. It is imperative that, as educators, we expose students - and audiences - to the musicals of the Golden Age of Broadway.

------------------------------
Roger Paolini
Buffalo NY
------------------------------

As I wrote before, I never directed Carousel because I didn't have the dancers by the time the Olney Theatre Center production convinced me that it could still work.  But I directed other chestnuts, such as My Fair Lady, Hello, Dolly!, and Brigadoon, as well as Bye Bye Birdie, Cinderella, and Once Upon a Mattress.  

These musicals have easily expandable companies that really get to play a part in the storytelling.  This works extremely well when the musical is a curricular production.  The choral director and I cast understudies out of the chorus and never had dead days of rehearsal because someone was sick.  And being part of an ensemble is a great way for students to gain skills in choreography, singing and blending, listening in character, and giving and taking focus.  

The themes in the older musicals are the same ones in modern musicals: feeling out of place, being lonely, looking for purpose, trying to grow beyond your current circumstances, and longing for true love. 

Because all of the students did dramaturgical research and we designed and built our own costumes, each production was a visit to another time period for the students first, then for the audience. 

When we did Brigadoon, the Technical Theatre class went on a field trip to the Tartan Museum in Franklin, NC, then a faculty member who makes his own kilts came in to help students get the hang of the pleating.  Real tartan wool fabric was far beyond our budget, but cheap plaid flannel made beautiful kilts and drapes.  I think it might be difficult to find a musical with a more nonsensical plot than Brigadoon, but the students and audiences alike loved that show.  Who hasn't wanted to escape from their present reality, or (in the case of Harry) been frustrated by unrequited love?

I think there are many reasons to continue to take fresh looks at the older musicals, not as museum pieces, but as pieces that continue to have relevance as we breathe the life of the present moment into them.      





------------------------------
C. J. Breland
Retired Theatre Arts Educator
Asheville NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-21-2019 07:41
From: Joseph Gels
Subject: Carousel? Anybody?

I would actually ponder the question. Why? Why is it important that we expose them to the Golden Age of Musicals? Maybe from a theatre history perspective but beyond that why not just do more modern pieces? YOu can always cover the "classics" elsewhere. I have an entirely contemporary season this year partially cause I am making a point of emphasizing themes that are relevant to their lives.

Original Message------

Thank you, all, for such a thoughtful and enlightening discussion. That's why I love this forum. Theatre educators can transform problematic material like this into powerful "teachable moments." I appreciate how R&H allowed for the script changes. What pleases me most about this discussion is that high schools are still doing the classics like "Carousel." I was a little put off by the lack of classics on the EdTa "most performed" list recently. It is imperative that, as educators, we expose students - and audiences - to the musicals of the Golden Age of Broadway.

------------------------------
Roger Paolini
Buffalo NY
------------------------------