Open Forum

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"  

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion. 

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background... 
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48. 
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities. 
We program all the cues for our shows. 
I almost never use tracking. 
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows. 
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?  

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Lots of reasonable considerations here.  You might get several different responses, but here's my thoughts on the matter.

Keeping the Express and a few incandescent luminaries for entry level learning sounds like a great option.  Although the industry is moving to LEDs, the intentionality required when using incandescent lights and gels makes a good foundation for students.  It can also provide a way to introduce multiple parameter lights as a transition to the updated system.

In the Element/Ion discussion, I would tend toward the Ion XE (or maybe even a Nomad) as the most recent product.  In fact, this is specifically because you are at a Middle School.  More and more venues seem to be transitioning to the Ion platform, it makes sense to me that teach students to use what they can expect to encounter in the future. In fact, I might even lobby for a Nomad system because it can easily be moved between the venue and the classroom.

------------------------------
Jym Kinney
Tacoma, Washington
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

It is important to know if the lights you will be getting with your new system are multi-color (RGBA or RGBW) types or if they are just white lights with which you will use gels.  If they are multi-color lights, then you will be using 3-4X as many DMX channels as compared to white only lights.  This can rapidly overwhelm your channel count on a smaller board, or at least overwhelm the operator that has to keep up with the extra data settings.  An Ion has features that make managing the multiple data sets for each fixture a bit easier, but it comes at the expense of a steep learning curve.

Also, you will have to get used to assigning DMX channels to fixtures as you move them around, and learning about DMX terminations (when and where to do this).

Like the advertisement said: "This isn't your father's Oldsmobile!" (To which I replied: " Yeah, I totaled that! ")

------------------------------
Erich Friend
Theatre Consultant
Teqniqal Systems
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Many above are correct, you need to determine how many fixtures and what kind they are.

As to the MA console this is probably not the route to go as most high schools and colleges are on the ETC platform, using the MA will work for some churches or touring but ETC is the standard, 

The Element might be the better boars and it comes in 2 versions the 1 K is the typical but if you need more outputs you can get the 6K.

It would be nice to keep the express as a back-up console or for educational purposes, 

Also make sure that your administration understands that there are ongoing replacement costs that need to be budgeted in the future for when the fixtures start to fail, just like computers in the classrooms.

------------------------------
Jerry Onik
V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
Omaha NE
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

YES - to all of the above.

No easy answers, but it was Jerry who said you need to "you need to determine how many fixtures and what kind they are". I call it Designing Backwards. In order to determine what kind of board you want, first look at what, and how many, fixtures you are getting. As you said, you aren't getting any moving fixtures (and presumably a slim chance of that in the future), so does the school need to spend the money on an Ion? Also, who will be teaching the students the technology every year? If you are comfortable with that, great. If not, here's an excerpt for you – a story that I actually used in a couple of my books (in case you didn't guess, it's about an Ion in a middle school)…

The design has to be appropriate in the first place before the keys are handed over, because the type of equipment installed directly affects building functionality, student learning and faculty retention. I've seen too many theatre designs go to complete waste and not used to their full potential because the design was not suitable to the users abilities or budget. For instance, one school I worked at had a (mega overkill, ultra expensive) state-of-the-art light board installed with a complete system of programmable LED lights in their 100-seat theatre. I suspect the architect was concerned about energy and environmental design, and rightly so, but the system was so complicated that no one had used the theatre's lighting system for the first year and a half of the school's operation. For a start no one knew how to turn off the stage lights (all of the lights had been left programmed to come on when the board was turned on and they didn't know how to create a blackout) let alone operate the lights individually. So my techs and I re-hung and focused the lights and programmed the whole system for them in a simpler format. That system will never be used to its full potential in such a preliminary learning environment and cost the school district hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is a classic example of where simpler technology (a "two scene preset" manual board with standard manually focused instruments) trumps state-of-the-art technology when it comes to building performance affecting academic performance, as well as staff ability and retention of knowledge.

As to your question about whether you can program LEDs on an Express, the answer is YES! It takes a while to get them programmed, but then you can easily use them manually and/or record them into cues. I'm attaching an example of LED cyc lights programmed into an Express – the patching, and the sub labeling. It worked great, by the way!

Yes, I did say architects spec a lot of Ions, and I don't think it's going to stop, because I don't think they stop to think (about Designing Backwards). But, LEDs are the wave of the future (which doesn't mean I agree with that completely…). The issue here is not that we're moving into more sophisticated equipment, even in middle schools, but the long term issue is going to become - who is going to staff these multi-million dollar facilities and educate the students? Is the Drama teacher expected to do it all? Have a look at the free downloads at http://www.presett.org/freedownloads.html titled "Educational Reform – Tech Theatre is a CTE Subject", "Theatre "Coaches"", and "Funding for Theatre Departments".

If you're going to get an all LED system and an Ion, or even Element, board, also consider advocating for staffing.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Educational Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach
www.PRESETT.org

- HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS ONLINE COURSE (http://www.presett.org/tmt.html)
- NEW! INDEPENDENT STUDY for those who don't have time to join a cohort!

- ION, ELEMENT, EXPRESS & COLOR THEORY - ONLINE MINI COURSES
(http://www.presett.org/litt.html)

-HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS and LIGHTING BASICS BOOKS (http://www.presett.org/helpful-books.html)

- THE ECLECTECH SHOPPE (http://www.presett.org/eclectech.html)

beth@PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Hi, 

I agree with you that ETC has been the standard market for high schools and colleges. But I ask why not change the standard of using any ETC consoles due to them not being used in the professional lighting industry outside a student's college years. Experience in ETC theatrical consoles are useless when a student wants to find a job in the professional world lighting community, the standard lighting consoles are MA, Highend and Avolites. Why start them on a bad habit and loose the value of training them for success just to please the school standards, shouldn't we be teaching the students real world applications outside what the school requires. To meet and succeed the industry expectations. Thoughts?

I received this reply it is not on the site, but I wanted to share my comments to all to answer this.

ETC is being used outside the college years, it is the most widely used control in professional and community theaters, The question i pose is what are the professional careers they are going on to, are they primarily doing rock and roll or theater, there is never going to be a stead fast solution to what you are using, it is based on what your focus is and what consoles are being used in these applications, I prefer to have a console that matches what is needed to provide competent operators and programmers in the area or across areas, having a Grand MA in Middle school then having to learn a new programming formats moving on or maintaining and becoming a better programmer are the goal.

People have their preferences and needs, do you need to do Busking or tracking in your console. Hog/MA/Avo are all good consoles. you need to make the decision on your own, but having a ETC console is not a Bad Habit, find out your world and learn for that.

Thanks

------------------------------
Jerry Onik
V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
Omaha NE
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Thanks for all the responses so far ....

To give a bit more information (quickly, before my next class!):

The spec has a mix of ellipsoidals, PARs, and cyc lights.  5 pipes (one over the pit, 4 over the stage), and 2 positions at each side of the house ("box boom" without any boxes).  I believe it is a total of 67 ellipsoidals, 16 PARs, and 9 cyc lights ... or some similar with that number of lighting instruments.  This may not be precisely accurate, but it gives an idea of the scope of the installation.  I know they are not just RGB, need to check whether the spec has RGBAW or RGBA or RGBW.   Regardless, the setup is a significant improvement over our current setup, which, though not at all bad for a middle school, has limitations that, well, limit us!

I am the person in our building who knows the lights, and we don't have a theatre tech specialist nor an auditorium manager.  I am not a lighting specialist (more directing, stage management), but it was probably my third area of focus in college (a long time ago), and it is the design area with which I am most comfortable and confident.  I will get significant training, and will definitely be aiming to take advantage of the design possibilities that an expanded system will offer.  And, yup, I am going to use the new equipment and building to advocate for staffing!

Sounds like my instinct to keep the Express is a good one.  Thanks, Beth.

With the scope I have described, and knowing that I want to teach 11-14 year olds (who are, admittedly, pretty tech-savvy) to program cues and run shows ... 
Which is the easier console to use?  Is there anything that the Ion does that the Element does not that I actually will need?  Or is there another equally reliable brand that has a console that is exactly what I need?  

Whether all LEDs or not is preferable is a decision we are past.  It is going to be all LEDs.  I know there are things that I will miss about incandescent lights, but for infrastructure purposes, it makes more sense.  




------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2019 08:17
From: Jerry Onik
Subject: Element or Ion?

Hi,

I agree with you that ETC has been the standard market for high schools and colleges. But I ask why not change the standard of using any ETC consoles due to them not being used in the professional lighting industry outside a student's college years. Experience in ETC theatrical consoles are useless when a student wants to find a job in the professional world lighting community, the standard lighting consoles are MA, Highend and Avolites. Why start them on a bad habit and loose the value of training them for success just to please the school standards, shouldn't we be teaching the students real world applications outside what the school requires. To meet and succeed the industry expectations. Thoughts?

I received this reply it is not on the site, but I wanted to share my comments to all to answer this.

ETC is being used outside the college years, it is the most widely used control in professional and community theaters, The question i pose is what are the professional careers they are going on to, are they primarily doing rock and roll or theater, there is never going to be a stead fast solution to what you are using, it is based on what your focus is and what consoles are being used in these applications, I prefer to have a console that matches what is needed to provide competent operators and programmers in the area or across areas, having a Grand MA in Middle school then having to learn a new programming formats moving on or maintaining and becoming a better programmer are the goal.

People have their preferences and needs, do you need to do Busking or tracking in your console. Hog/MA/Avo are all good consoles. you need to make the decision on your own, but having a ETC console is not a Bad Habit, find out your world and learn for that.

Thanks

------------------------------
Jerry Onik
V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
Omaha NE

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Original Message------

Thanks for all the responses so far ....

To give a bit more information (quickly, before my next class!):

The spec has a mix of ellipsoidals, PARs, and cyc lights.  5 pipes (one over the pit, 4 over the stage), and 2 positions at each side of the house ("box boom" without any boxes).  I believe it is a total of 67 ellipsoidals, 16 PARs, and 9 cyc lights ... or some similar with that number of lighting instruments.  This may not be precisely accurate, but it gives an idea of the scope of the installation.  I know they are not just RGB, need to check whether the spec has RGBAW or RGBA or RGBW.   Regardless, the setup is a significant improvement over our current setup, which, though not at all bad for a middle school, has limitations that, well, limit us!

I am the person in our building who knows the lights, and we don't have a theatre tech specialist nor an auditorium manager.  I am not a lighting specialist (more directing, stage management), but it was probably my third area of focus in college (a long time ago), and it is the design area with which I am most comfortable and confident.  I will get significant training, and will definitely be aiming to take advantage of the design possibilities that an expanded system will offer.  And, yup, I am going to use the new equipment and building to advocate for staffing!

Sounds like my instinct to keep the Express is a good one.  Thanks, Beth.

With the scope I have described, and knowing that I want to teach 11-14 year olds (who are, admittedly, pretty tech-savvy) to program cues and run shows ... 
Which is the easier console to use?  Is there anything that the Ion does that the Element does not that I actually will need?  Or is there another equally reliable brand that has a console that is exactly what I need?  

Whether all LEDs or not is preferable is a decision we are past.  It is going to be all LEDs.  I know there are things that I will miss about incandescent lights, but for infrastructure purposes, it makes more sense.  




------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

This certainly puts a much finer point on the question, thank you for that clarification.

Both the Element and the Ion use the same software, making their use almost the same.  There are physical keys on the Ion that are soft keys on the Element.  I don't recall which they are in particular, but it showed up primarily when saving and applying palettes.

The biggest immediate difference is that the base model of the Element includes 40 faders.  The base models of the Ion do not include faders.  However, the Ion (and previously mentioned Nomad that uses the same software for a PC controlled system) can be expanded to include faders.

------------------------------
Jym Kinney
Tacoma, Washington
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2019 13:38
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

Thanks for all the responses so far ....

To give a bit more information (quickly, before my next class!):

The spec has a mix of ellipsoidals, PARs, and cyc lights.  5 pipes (one over the pit, 4 over the stage), and 2 positions at each side of the house ("box boom" without any boxes).  I believe it is a total of 67 ellipsoidals, 16 PARs, and 9 cyc lights ... or some similar with that number of lighting instruments.  This may not be precisely accurate, but it gives an idea of the scope of the installation.  I know they are not just RGB, need to check whether the spec has RGBAW or RGBA or RGBW.   Regardless, the setup is a significant improvement over our current setup, which, though not at all bad for a middle school, has limitations that, well, limit us!

I am the person in our building who knows the lights, and we don't have a theatre tech specialist nor an auditorium manager.  I am not a lighting specialist (more directing, stage management), but it was probably my third area of focus in college (a long time ago), and it is the design area with which I am most comfortable and confident.  I will get significant training, and will definitely be aiming to take advantage of the design possibilities that an expanded system will offer.  And, yup, I am going to use the new equipment and building to advocate for staffing!

Sounds like my instinct to keep the Express is a good one.  Thanks, Beth.

With the scope I have described, and knowing that I want to teach 11-14 year olds (who are, admittedly, pretty tech-savvy) to program cues and run shows ...
Which is the easier console to use?  Is there anything that the Ion does that the Element does not that I actually will need?  Or is there another equally reliable brand that has a console that is exactly what I need?

Whether all LEDs or not is preferable is a decision we are past.  It is going to be all LEDs.  I know there are things that I will miss about incandescent lights, but for infrastructure purposes, it makes more sense.




------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA

Original Message:
Sent: 09-26-2019 08:17
From: Jerry Onik
Subject: Element or Ion?

Hi,

I agree with you that ETC has been the standard market for high schools and colleges. But I ask why not change the standard of using any ETC consoles due to them not being used in the professional lighting industry outside a student's college years. Experience in ETC theatrical consoles are useless when a student wants to find a job in the professional world lighting community, the standard lighting consoles are MA, Highend and Avolites. Why start them on a bad habit and loose the value of training them for success just to please the school standards, shouldn't we be teaching the students real world applications outside what the school requires. To meet and succeed the industry expectations. Thoughts?

I received this reply it is not on the site, but I wanted to share my comments to all to answer this.

ETC is being used outside the college years, it is the most widely used control in professional and community theaters, The question i pose is what are the professional careers they are going on to, are they primarily doing rock and roll or theater, there is never going to be a stead fast solution to what you are using, it is based on what your focus is and what consoles are being used in these applications, I prefer to have a console that matches what is needed to provide competent operators and programmers in the area or across areas, having a Grand MA in Middle school then having to learn a new programming formats moving on or maintaining and becoming a better programmer are the goal.

People have their preferences and needs, do you need to do Busking or tracking in your console. Hog/MA/Avo are all good consoles. you need to make the decision on your own, but having a ETC console is not a Bad Habit, find out your world and learn for that.

Thanks

------------------------------
Jerry Onik
V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
Omaha NE

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

I agree with Jerry that it would be useful for vocational students, those who will be going into the entertainment industry, to know about the equipment that they will encounter out there if they are going to be board ops. I've worked with students who have had to start at the bottom after graduation in order to learn new boards. But also, designers should know how to communicate with their board ops, so it helps to know how their equipment works too and what the capabilities are.

Also a good point about whether a vocational student is going to go into 'events' (concerts and the such) or 'production' (live theatre). The equipment is typically different, as are the design techniques.

Which begs the question, is lighting art or technology? Or a bit of both?

Is it the teacher's goal to train students how to program electronic equipment or is it the teacher's goal to train students about what light 'does' – or both? I had a student once who learned how to run the Element at our high school, and then went on to a college where she designed lights for a show and had to run them herself using a two-scene preset board. When I went to see her show, she commented to me that now she finally understood what she was doing with the light because she was physically manipulating it, rather than just pushing a bunch of buttons that she'd been told to push. Yes, she'd be trained in design, by moi, but that visceral control of the light finally helped her really understand what the light 'does'. 

Which is why I, with a designer's bias, am an – controversial I know – advocate for more hands-on boards, such as the Express, at the high school level. If a student learns how to design and what light 'does', then they can learn the technology of any other board. (The same case goes for analog versus digital sound boards – but what do I know about those, I'm just a lighting geek). Of course, with LEDs coming onto the market more and more, everything is becoming more and more about the programming.

So, regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, when choosing a light board, it's important to first know what you want to teach the students; design or programming or some combination. And then, which board will help you best accomplish that. Or maybe more to the point, what do your students want to learn. Do you have designers or do you have 'tech-geek' programmers? I've seen students who are natural designers learn the technology (the best board ops I've had in high schools are the ones who have a design sense and can second guess my commands before I'm half finished with my sentences), but I rarely see 'tech-geeks' learn a design sense, or even want to. Just give them something to program - they just want to get their hands on that light board (these kids though, are your best trouble shooters!). 

Of course, in the educational setting I believe you should teach design techniques alongside programming skills, regardless of the inclination of the students, because in the real world it works best when the board ops know what the designers are conceptualizing and the designers know what the board ops are doing.

Again: Designing Backwards. It's important to be aware of what your end objectives are (design/art, programming/technology, or a bit of both?, and also: concert lighting art and programming or production lighting art and programming) before you pick the board that will best help you achieve your educational objectives.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Educational Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach
www.PRESETT.org

- HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS ONLINE COURSE (http://www.presett.org/tmt.html)
- NEW! INDEPENDENT STUDY for those who don't have time to join a cohort!

- ION, ELEMENT, EXPRESS & COLOR THEORY - ONLINE MINI COURSES
(http://www.presett.org/litt.html)

-HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS and LIGHTING BASICS BOOKS (http://www.presett.org/helpful-books.html)

- THE ECLECTECH SHOPPE (http://www.presett.org/eclectech.html)

beth@PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

We just had a light console upgrade 3 years ago. We had an ETC Expression 3 prior and ended up with an Element. When we were getting our new equipment, I questioned the Element vs the Ion too (although in my case the decision had already been made). I was told that since we didn't have moving lights and likely not to get them any time soon, we didn't need the Ion. Also, the Element has physical faders. I saw were someone posted you can get them for the Ion but they aren't built in.  We got the Element that has 60 faders. It takes up the entire left side of the console. So far, in three years, we still haven't touched a fraction of what the Element will do. But I did find that programming is mostly intuitive. It just took me a bit to relearn from what I knew on the Expression. My students, however, picked up right away and haven't had any trouble learning and/or figuring out new and cool things it will do.

I should mention we have mostly incandescent fixtures with a few LEDs (getting new LED Cyc lights this fall, so excited!) but no moving lights. So we have both to contend with and haven't really had any issues. We are also running on a Unison Dimmer rack for our house lights (version 1) and ETC dimmer racks (also version 1). Obviously these are old and outdated but still a work horse. 

I say go with the Element if I had to choose.


------------------------------
Vicki Palmer
Theatre Technical Director
Hickman High School - Home of the Kewpies
International Thespian Society Troupe #5568
Columbia, MO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Vicki hit the nail on the head when she said "So far, in three years, we still haven't touched a fraction of what the Element will do." I'm going to start a new post about just that issue. Watch your in box…

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Educational Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach
www.PRESETT.org

- HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS ONLINE COURSE (http://www.presett.org/tmt.html)
- NEW! INDEPENDENT STUDY for those who don't have time to join a cohort!

- ION, ELEMENT, EXPRESS & COLOR THEORY - ONLINE MINI COURSES
(http://www.presett.org/litt.html)

-HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS and LIGHTING BASICS BOOKS (http://www.presett.org/helpful-books.html)

- THE ECLECTECH SHOPPE (http://www.presett.org/eclectech.html)

beth@PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-27-2019 13:42
From: Vicki Palmer
Subject: Element or Ion?

We just had a light console upgrade 3 years ago. We had an ETC Expression 3 prior and ended up with an Element. When we were getting our new equipment, I questioned the Element vs the Ion too (although in my case the decision had already been made). I was told that since we didn't have moving lights and likely not to get them any time soon, we didn't need the Ion. Also, the Element has physical faders. I saw were someone posted you can get them for the Ion but they aren't built in.  We got the Element that has 60 faders. It takes up the entire left side of the console. So far, in three years, we still haven't touched a fraction of what the Element will do. But I did find that programming is mostly intuitive. It just took me a bit to relearn from what I knew on the Expression. My students, however, picked up right away and haven't had any trouble learning and/or figuring out new and cool things it will do.

I should mention we have mostly incandescent fixtures with a few LEDs (getting new LED Cyc lights this fall, so excited!) but no moving lights. So we have both to contend with and haven't really had any issues. We are also running on a Unison Dimmer rack for our house lights (version 1) and ETC dimmer racks (also version 1). Obviously these are old and outdated but still a work horse.

I say go with the Element if I had to choose.


------------------------------
Vicki Palmer
Theatre Technical Director
Hickman High School - Home of the Kewpies
International Thespian Society Troupe #5568
Columbia, MO

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

https://blog.etcconnect.com/2019/09/10212/

------------------------------
John Perry
Retired Theatre Teacher
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

Big caveat - all of this depends on if the district will also pay for the installation of the board as well as a few hours of training - in part so the person can program some the lights into the Express.

If the district is willing to pony up the money for an Ion, then you get it - though ask for the model with faders. This is like asking whether you should get a Prius or a Tesla - if they are paying for it (and it's not a case of if they spend less with the Element you get more to spend on something else) then you get the Tesla, even if currently a Prius would be fine. Based on how funding usually goes, you might not have the chance to get a brand new board for a decade or longer. Sure, keep the Express and maybe bring it out for other people, but take the opportunity to get something that will keep you up to date for years. You and your students will figure it out.

------------------------------
Ken Buswell
Drama Teacher
Peachtree City, GA
http://mcintoshtheater.org/

Theater kills ignorance
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------

I wanted to bring up one point to possibly to consider in your adjudication. What board is the high school most of your students will ultimately attend using? If it is still an acceptable platform, there is something to be said about all students being familiar with the same platform. High school students could workshop with your more advanced students, which is a great peer to peer hands on learning opportunity. A beneficial side effect is that you have older students who are familiar with your board who can serve a board ops if you are even in a pinch.

~Dave

------------------------------
David Simpson
Performing Arts Center Manager
East China Schools
East China MI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-29-2019 22:06
From: Ken Buswell
Subject: Element or Ion?

Big caveat - all of this depends on if the district will also pay for the installation of the board as well as a few hours of training - in part so the person can program some the lights into the Express.

If the district is willing to pony up the money for an Ion, then you get it - though ask for the model with faders. This is like asking whether you should get a Prius or a Tesla - if they are paying for it (and it's not a case of if they spend less with the Element you get more to spend on something else) then you get the Tesla, even if currently a Prius would be fine. Based on how funding usually goes, you might not have the chance to get a brand new board for a decade or longer. Sure, keep the Express and maybe bring it out for other people, but take the opportunity to get something that will keep you up to date for years. You and your students will figure it out.

------------------------------
Ken Buswell
Drama Teacher
Peachtree City, GA
http://mcintoshtheater.org/

Theater kills ignorance

Original Message:
Sent: 09-24-2019 21:13
From: Kristin Hall
Subject: Element or Ion?

I've been searching old posts, and found Beth Rand's statement: "even though architects regardlessly insist on spec'ing Ions(!)"

We are a middle school (K-8, actually), with a big building/renovation project coming up.  And, yup, the spec says an Ion.

I had looked into this a few years ago, and thought that an Element was probably better suited to our needs.  But I wanted to check in with the forum (before I turn down the Ion).

A little background...
It is going to be a net zero building, and all the theatre lights are going to be LEDs.  Lots of them (hooray!).
Currently we have an aging setup, with a dying dimmer rack, and an ETC Express 24/48.
I love the Express for middle schoolers.  They tend to learn with the faders, then move to the keypad.  By eighth grade many of them are happy using more advanced features, but we never use all of its possible capabilities.
We program all the cues for our shows.
I almost never use tracking.
The board also gets used for music concerts, outside groups, and other classes.  I have submasters set up, and that is what gets used for pretty much everything other than our shows.
The spec for the new setup does not include any moving lights.  There is an extremely slim chance that some may get added in the future.  Really, really slim.
We are the only school in the town (high school is in another town), so the auditorium does serve the whole community.

So:  do I tell them that I don't need/want an Ion, that I want an Element instead (as it is more hands on, therefore a better option for middle schoolers)?
Or do I want the Ion?

I have 10 days until I have to let them know .....

Final question:  with LEDs, is it possible to hang on to the Express and to just patch in enough to set up some straightforward submasters for other groups (chorus/band concerts, school presentations, recreation department, summer camp stuff, etc.) to use, and then to save the new console (Ion or Element) locked in a closet just to be brought out for theatre department or events with me or other trained folks running the lighting?  I understand you can use some LEDs with the Express, but can it operate all LEDs?  What are its limits?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and information anyone can offer.



------------------------------
Kristin Hall
Drama Director
Lincoln Public Schools
Lincoln MA
------------------------------