Open Forum

I approach it based on how the characters are integral in the script. Ensemble (regardless of the number of roles they play) receive 4 points, secondary characters receive 5-6 (depending on the amount of time they are on stage) featured characters get 6-7 (again depending on their time on stage) and leads get 8 points. 

It can vary according to script and how the students complete the responsibilities of the roles; but, for the most part, I follow the layout above.

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Shira Schwartz
Chandler Unified School District
Chandler AZ
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school

We decided awhile ago to eliminate the major and minor roles to major and minor effort. Just because one person has one line doesn't mean they put less time into the production. And we've had students who have had major roles and didn't put in the effort. I don't know if this helps at all, but it seems to work a lot better with our students!

------------------------------
Sara Danke Lukaszewicz
Lincoln High School
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school

Sara,

I'm glad you replied.  I teach middle school and, therefore have never been tasked with keeping charge of thespian points. (We don't even have a Jr. Thespian troupe--something which I hope to correct some day.)  So, I didn't feel like it was my place to comment.  I will say though, I instinctively tensed up when I read the question.  The granting of more points to a participant based on the role seemed to me antithetical to much of my teaching, which espouses that all roles are valid participation in the artform, and that no parts are a more valid theatrical expression than others.

I also hesitated to ask because I didn't want to seem like I was criticizing the original poster, which I wasn't.  Since reading, I followed my curiosity by a little cursory googling and the practice of differentiating points does seem to be the norm.  

What do others think of the distinction?  Are there more out there like Sara who don't differentiate?

------------------------------
Ryan Moore
Theatre Teacher and Forensics Coach
Royal Oak MI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2017 08:24
From: Sara Danke Lukaszewicz
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

We decided awhile ago to eliminate the major and minor roles to major and minor effort. Just because one person has one line doesn't mean they put less time into the production. And we've had students who have had major roles and didn't put in the effort. I don't know if this helps at all, but it seems to work a lot better with our students!

------------------------------
Sara Danke Lukaszewicz
Lincoln High School
Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school

I was taught that major roles were necessary to move the action/conflict(s) of a play forward.  (In Streetcar, Stanley, Stella, Blanche)  A supporting role helped move the action of the play forward, but the major conflict would still be there without them.  (Mitch and The Doctor).  Minor characters were interesting and helped create the world of the main and supporting characters, but were not integral to the major conflict(s) of the play.  (Pablo, Steve and Eunice, Nurse, Flower Lady)

Streetcar was a play about the conflict between Stanley and Blanche, with Stella being the prize.  W/o Stanley, Stella, or Blanche, the conflict of this play would have been much different, or there might have been no conflict at all.  Mitch and eventually the Doctor helped move the conflict forward towards a resolution, but even w/o them, the conflict would have still been there.  Pablo, Steve, and Eunice helped flesh out the world of the play, but weren't crucial to the basic conflict of the play.

This was from a Theory and Criticism class many years ago.  The size of a role really didn't determine whether a role was major or minor.  Everything was based on the structure of the play.  That being said, most major roles are usually larger parts. but we used these criteria while I was teaching.  The students understood the parameters, and we rarely had issues with which roles were major, supporting, and minor.

------------------------------
Bob Fowler
Co-Developer
Interactive Educational Video, LLC
Chesterfield MORobertRobertRobert
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school

I teach middle school, too, and unless there's a VERY obvious lead, everyone gets ensemble points. I would encourage you to start a Junior Thespian troupe. My kids love it, and going to our state festival is a highlight every year.

------------------------------
Dianne Rowe
Birmingham AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2017 18:27
From: Robert Fowler
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I was taught that major roles were necessary to move the action/conflict(s) of a play forward.  (In Streetcar, Stanley, Stella, Blanche)  A supporting role helped move the action of the play forward, but the major conflict would still be there without them.  (Mitch and The Doctor).  Minor characters were interesting and helped create the world of the main and supporting characters, but were not integral to the major conflict(s) of the play.  (Pablo, Steve and Eunice, Nurse, Flower Lady)

Streetcar was a play about the conflict between Stanley and Blanche, with Stella being the prize.  W/o Stanley, Stella, or Blanche, the conflict of this play would have been much different, or there might have been no conflict at all.  Mitch and eventually the Doctor helped move the conflict forward towards a resolution, but even w/o them, the conflict would have still been there.  Pablo, Steve, and Eunice helped flesh out the world of the play, but weren't crucial to the basic conflict of the play.

This was from a Theory and Criticism class many years ago.  The size of a role really didn't determine whether a role was major or minor.  Everything was based on the structure of the play.  That being said, most major roles are usually larger parts. but we used these criteria while I was teaching.  The students understood the parameters, and we rarely had issues with which roles were major, supporting, and minor.

------------------------------
Bob Fowler
Co-Developer
Interactive Educational Video, LLC
Chesterfield MORobertRobertRobert

Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school

Since Thespian Points are awarded for the time spent (1 point for 10 hours of excellent work) then the distinction between major and minor roles would be one of time spent in rehearsal. In a play where the leads need more rehearsal time than smaller roles, this would be a way to acknowledge the time they put in vs. other cast members. Awarding fewer points based on other criteria seems difficult to explain and support. Remembering, of course, that the maximum point value is for “excellent” work, and is flexible as needed.

---------------------------------
Jenner Veitch
Theatre Teacher

San Diego CA
---------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 11/22/2017 9:15:55 AM
From: drowe@hoover.k12.al.us
Subject: RE: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I teach middle school, too, and unless there's a VERY obvious lead, everyone gets ensemble points. I would encourage you to start a Junior Thespian troupe. My kids love it, and going to our state festival is a highlight every year.

------------------------------
Dianne Rowe
Birmingham AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2017 18:27
From: Robert Fowler
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I was taught that major roles were necessary to move the action/conflict(s) of a play forward.  (In Streetcar, Stanley, Stella, Blanche)  A supporting role helped move the action of the play forward, but the major conflict would still be there without them.  (Mitch and The Doctor).  Minor characters were interesting and helped create the world of the main and supporting characters, but were not integral to the major conflict(s) of the play.  (Pablo, Steve and Eunice, Nurse, Flower Lady)

Streetcar was a play about the conflict between Stanley and Blanche, with Stella being the prize.  W/o Stanley, Stella, or Blanche, the conflict of this play would have been much different, or there might have been no conflict at all.  Mitch and eventually the Doctor helped move the conflict forward towards a resolution, but even w/o them, the conflict would have still been there.  Pablo, Steve, and Eunice helped flesh out the world of the play, but weren't crucial to the basic conflict of the play.

This was from a Theory and Criticism class many years ago.  The size of a role really didn't determine whether a role was major or minor.  Everything was based on the structure of the play.  That being said, most major roles are usually larger parts. but we used these criteria while I was teaching.  The students understood the parameters, and we rarely had issues with which roles were major, supporting, and minor.

------------------------------
Bob Fowler
Co-Developer
Interactive Educational Video, LLC
Chesterfield MORobertRobertRobert

Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school

In the context of the ITS point system, the distinctions between major roles, minor roles, supporting roles, ensemble, etc., aren't based on the "importance" of a particular role. It's assumed that every role is integral to the production or it wouldn't be there.

Fundamentally, the point system is a tool for tracking experience using hours of quality work as the measure. "Quality" presumes that the time spent is on-task and includes the caliber and educational value of the work. For Thespians, one Thespian point is earned for every ten hours, and induction is earned at a minimum of 10 points (100 hours).

Tracking student hours can be a challenge, especially for programs with a lot of participants and/or productions and projects. That's why the Thespian and Junior Thespian point system provide a list of recommended point awards for common roles and positions in the average production. The point award is an estimate based on the number of hours the average student might spend at that job. The TIPS and JTIPS tools incorporate the recommended point awards but also give the option to award points based on hourly work.

ITS recognizes that each theatre program is unique, so flexibility is built in, too. Troupe directors may tailor the point system somewhat fit their programs, so long as the minimum hourly requirements are met.

Hope this helps!

------------------------------
Brian Benz
Membership Manager
Educational Theatre Association
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-20-2017 11:08
From: Jodi Disario
Subject: Determining "Major roles" and "Minor roles"

I'm trying to figure out the Thespian Points for "It's a Wonderful Life." I have a cast of about 40. I'm trying to figure out an objective way to award the points for "Major" and 'Minor" role. For example, George is a major role. He is in most scenes after scene 6. Mary is in 10 of the 31 scenes. Is she major? Potter is only in 7. Yes he's the focus in those 7, but does that make him major? Then, most of my ensemble is playing 3-4 characters each, and thus, in more scenes than Potter OR Mary.

How do I decide?

"There's only us, there's only this: 

Forget regret, or life is yours to miss. 

No other path, no other way. No day 

but today."
-Jonathan Larson
"Rent"

Disario, Jodi

Drama Teacher and Director

Willow Glen High School
jdisario@sjusd.org

www.msd.school