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  • 1.  Coaches pay

    Posted 04-29-2018 09:02

    So for awhile I have thought of trying (probably failing, but trying) to make the argument to the powers that be in my district that my stipend should be equivalent to head coach. My argument will be:

    1) My program publicly represents the school - like sports
    2) My hours put in are actually  more than that of most coaches
    3) My kids letter in drama

    So my questions to the group:
    Is anyone paid like a coach? If so, how did you swing that? Was there a winning argument? What district are you in if you are (thinking if I can find a number of other districts that do this it will significantly bolster my argument)?  And finally, am I missing any strong argument for my position?

    Thanks!



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    Jeffrey Davis
    Plainsboro NJ
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  • 2.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-29-2018 13:54
    From what I've read here over the past few years, an ongoing theme seems to be that admins just don't understand theater, or how much work goes into it. And, again from comments here, some of them seem to think of theater as "putting on the school play." So maybe they see "the school play" as just a rite of passage for high school kids. I don't know that for a fact, and thankfully I don't have to deal with school admins, but that's the impression I've gotten here.

    So I think a strong argument would be that "the school play" is not just a rite of passage. You're training kids in theater the same way that the coaches are training kids in sports (a la the real world), regardless of whether they continue or not. The athletic director at my old high school told me, a couple of years ago, that their role is to get kids ready for their next step, regardless of whether they choose to take that step or not. Of all the kids who play, say, varsity football in high school, how many even go on to play football in college, never mind the pro leagues? I don't know the answer, but I'm willing to guess someone has done a study somewhere along the line. The same is true of theater.

    There was an article along these lines in (I think) Teaching Theatre last year or the year before, and the author quoted me on this. I don't remember the issue, but the author made some good points. You may want to look it up.

    Good luck! Keep us posted.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
    http://astore.amazon.com/sdtbookstore-20
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 11:49
    I can say from my perspective is that we are extremely underpaid.  I direct 2 shows, a musical and a straight play every year, I  am the set designer for both shows, the technical director for both shows, and the stage manager of the theatre.  I still make less of a stipend then our head football, head basketball girls and boys and the assistant AD.  

    --
    Charles Puetzer
    Math Department
    Stage Manager
    Michigan City High School
    8466 W Pahs Road
    Michigan City, IN 46360
    (219) 873-2044, ext. 4360
    cpuetzer03@mcas.k12.in.us





  • 4.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 06:56
    I made this argument twenty years ago and won
     I am paid like a varsity coach with a stipend of 3500 per fall and spring shows. Anything produced by a class is not compensated like that.

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    Elisabeth Ledwell
    Falmouth MA
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  • 5.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 07:19
    Hi,

    Yes, I receive a stipend and it is part of a calculation based on our starting salary. Although in place since I have been here, I am certain that it was the outcome of contract arbitration.
    My suggestion would be to speak with your association rep and have this included in the next round of negotiations.

    Here is a link to our compensation information, you will find it on the second page.

    http://mvschool.org/personnel-department/477-salary-schedule-coaching-stipends-2017-2018/file

    Thanks,

    Dana

    ------------------------------
    Dana Taylor
    MSD of Mt. Vernon
    Evansville IN
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 08:24
    Good Morning!
    What a great question and one that I spent about 2 years researching. This school was the first year where our benchmarked stipends were put into place. This was a result of 2 years of gathering data from a wide variety of places (many from this discussion board). 

    I direct at a private independent school so I am aware that it might be a little different for a public school. I would echo the points that you made regarding the importance of theatre and how the program is similar to sports. Over the last 7 years, I have had a growing number of athletes join the cast that have grown into lead roles. The theatre/athletes tend to be honest with their thoughts on being involved and the connections to sports. If you have any theatre/athletes, I would consider asking them. Many lacrosse players find the dancing piece to be similar to some of their drills on the field (our choreographer used to teach dance to athletes at the university level). Some other points you might consider: time management, co-ed collaboration, public speaking, healthy relationship building, respect (differences, gender), etc. These lessons become co-curricular in lieu of being extra-curricular. Strong connections to what many schools are trying to do to support and develop respectful and caring young men and women. I can discuss further offline if you would like.

    With the above information including the salary benchmarking, we have increased our stipends, dramatically in some cases, and created tiered system based on the number of hours, number of kids as a direct report, responsibilities for the role, etc. Again, I can share these values offline if you would like.

    I would be curious to see how you make out with this. Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    James Fry
    Director of Student Life and the Malvern Theatre Society
    Malvern, PA
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  • 7.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 14:48

    I get a small stipend for up to 2 plays a year, and it is far less than coaches, but I think several of the stipends at our school don't match hours contributed, not just mine. Because at our school stipends are part of the negotiation contract, stipends are reviewed but always taken off the table as talks go on. Check that first. If stipend pay is determined by admin, then it is worth fighting for a higher stipend, which a colleague of mine did. She and the music director made their case by documenting hours and tasks and was able to double her stipend. 



     
     
    Amy Sando,
    Douglas High School Drama
    782-5136
     
    "You've got to paint the picture and then walk into it. And if you ever find you can't paint the picture, just don't walk."





  • 8.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 16:29
    Wow!  Good luck in your quest.

    In my public school district, "supplements" (as they're called here) are set by the district-wide teachers' contract, as flat amounts.  There are all kinds of coaches' supplements available, including head and assistant coaches for most varsity and junior-varsity sports, and most or all of them are higher than a theatre director's supplement.  There's also only one theatre supplement per high school, regardless of how many theatre teachers the school has, and the district will not divide the supplement between two or more teachers at a school.  Interestingly, a high-school band director's supplement is the same as a high-school athletic director's supplement, so the paltry amount of the theatre supplement isn't simply a result of prejudice toward the arts!

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Grove
    Theatre Teacher, Aesthetics Department Chair
    Stanton College Preparatory School
    Jacksonville FL
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  • 9.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 04-30-2018 18:38

    There are really 4 staffing positions involved in running a high school theatre, and most of you are running 'one person shows' and doing ALL of this yourself.

    1.The Drama (acting) teacher and/or the CTE Tech Theatre teacher – often one and the same, should really be two people, making this 5 positions.

    2.The Theatre Manager – if your theatre hosts over 40 events a year (everything from class meetings to musicals – anything that needs a single mic set up to full sound and lighting design) then the school really should also have someone dedicated to managing all this.

    3.The designers and musical directors hired to work on plays and musicals – often times also the Drama teacher. 

    4.The technicians who run all the events in the theatre – and mentor (read: coach) the students, scheduled by the Theatre Manager.

    For the purposes of this coach discussion, let's look at just 1 and 3. (2 and 4 are another topic for another day…)

    When you think of a sports team, there is the main coach, and then often times a LOT of specialty assistant coaches (think football or track). I don't know about you, but at schools I've worked at, it seems there were constant notifications in my e-mail for hiring assistant coaches – kicking coach, running coach, catching coach, hurdles coach, jumping coach, the list is endless, even one time - a stipend for someone to be a timer for the track team. 

    As the Drama teacher, you are the main coach. And as such, you put in a LOT of hours, and your stipend (dare I say salary) should reflect that. I'm attaching an hours study I once did on just how much time a Drama teacher spends directing two shows a year. I've left it in Word – feel free to adapt it to your situation. I think this would be an eye opener for administrators. 

    But – you can't do it alone (although too many have to). You need a LOT of assistant coaches! The lighting coach, the sound coach, the set coach, the costume coach, the choreography coach, and so on. This is where I think the winning argument can happen – is to help admin become aware of just how many 'coaches' we need. As well as how much they should be paid based on how much time it takes each of them to tech a show. I'm also attaching an hours study I once did on that too. Too often, designers - often professionals from the community - are essentially being paid $2 or $3 an hour, because their stipends are so low.

    Some time ago, after yet another assistant coach job posting appeared in my school e-mail in box, I got fed up, and I took the job description, and everywhere there was a sports-related word, I substituted a theatre-related word. Other than that, I didn't change anything about the job description. I'm attaching a copy here – one is for the 'coaches' needed for a play, and one is for the additional 'coaches' needed for a musical.  There's really no difference from a sports team.

    Another reason that theatre 'coaches' get such low pay (if any), as well as because the admin doesn't realize how many hours are involved, is because there is a disconnect between where high schools put their funding and where people in the real world put their 'funding'. What a lot of people don't realize is that Americans spend more per year on entertainment than on sports. Plus, it takes a lot more people to make 'entertainment' happen than it does to make a sports event happen – you have only to look at the credits at the end of a movie. And, ironically, those sporting events don't run themselves either – there are a lot of 'techies' behind the scenes making sure the stadium functions. I often wonder if we changed our name from the Drama program to the Entertainment Arts program, if we might get more recognition – and funding (the money is there, it's just how it is apportioned). You can see an article I wrote about funding for the 'Entertainment Arts' on my website at http://www.presett.org/helpful-articles.html

    No one questions hiring several coaches for a sports team, it's the norm. Together – through our collective actions - we can make it the norm that the same applies to theatre as well. But, if we don't have these conversations out there, and only in our discussions with each other in here, the norm will not change. It's not always an easy conversation to have because you, like me, may have had too many people get their hackles up and just shut down and not want to listen any further, because they immediately perceive that sports funding is being attacked. So my only 'advice', when talking to people about theatre funding using sports examples, is to point out that you are using sports as an analogy, simply because people aren't so familiar with theatre, not as a comparison. I hope the attached figures will contribute to the winning argument!



    ------------------------------
    Beth Rand, EBMS
    Lighting Designer
    School Theatre Operations Coach

    NEW!
    ONLINE TECH COURSES FOR STUDENTS AND TEACHERS http://www.presett.org/techieacademy.html . A great summer project!

    HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Summer session June 4th (half full, 4 spaces left). Fall session Sept 10th. http://www.presett.org/theatre-management-course.html

    REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! http://www.presett.org/repplot.html

    "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and more tech theatre books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

    www.PRESETT.org
    Westminster, CO
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)



  • 10.  RE: Coaches pay

    Posted 05-01-2018 06:06
    Thanks all! This is very helpful.

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    Jeffrey Davis
    Plainsboro NJ
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