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  • 1.  Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-10-2017 13:42
    Has anyone had experience with a lighting truss on a winch? It can be lowered for bulb change and focus, then hoisted back up for performances. We're thinking of installing one over our audience. Any recommendations? Problems? Considerations?


    Mrs. Susan Draus
    English/Theater Arts
    Downingtown High School West
    445 Manor Ave. | Downingtown, PA 19335
    P: 610-269-4400 ext. 7921 | E: sdraus@dasd.org | W: http://www.dasd.org/dhsw



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  • 2.  RE: Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-11-2017 04:50

    This is a really horrible approach to getting lights mounted in the beam lighting position.  There are solutions that are safer and more aesthetically pleasing for the room.

    The main problem is functionality:  You have 'bounce the lights' to even get close to a reasonable focus.  If the winch runs at 15 feet per minute (fpm) (a typical speed), and the truss is 25-30 feet in the air, it takes about minute and a half to raise or lower the truss.  Each time you start or stop the truss, the lights jiggle a bit and get a wee-bit out of whack.  You have to look at the lights, figure-out how each one needs to be adjusted (tweaked), wait until it is lowered, make all of the adjustments to each lighting instrument (wild guesses mostly), run it back up, survey the situation, and the repeat the cycle again.  This can go on for hours . . .  each time you get a bit closer to what you want, but it is very exasperating.  Oh, did I mention that the trusses sway a bit after moving (particularly if the air vents blow on it), so you have to wait for it to stop moving to really understand what your lights are aimed at.

    Inconvenience aside, there is always a temptation to get a ladder out and try to adjust the lights in the air.  This can be very dangerous over the seats!  Unless you have 100% guaranteed supervision of your students, you can't be sure that none of them will try to be helpful and attempt to make adjustments this way.  The other consideration is that if it is an electric hoist (it better not be a hand cranked hoist!), then it will need to have a control panel located where the operator can see the truss moving up and down, and that control panel must have a key locking switch (among many other safety features too numerous to mention here).  If that control panel key gets left where the students can access it and run the winch unsupervised, it creates a huge liability for you and the school.  Then there is the temptation to 'ride the truss'.  Given the opportunity and lack of supervision, some student(s) will think that they can ride the truss up and adjust the lights in the air . . .

    Inconvenience and safety aside (do we really want to put safety aside?), a big truss hanging ugly across the ceiling of an otherwise nice auditorium is a sure visual distraction for the audience.

    Inconvenience, safety, and ugly aside, there can be an issue in some buildings of having enough structural capacity to support a large truss spanning the auditorium.  This assembly is full of lights, hoist motor(s), wiring raceway (plugstrip), and the self-weight of the truss structure.  This has to be assessed by a structural engineer to make sure the weight is attached and distributed properly.  This is a 'live load', not a static load, so if you have a ton of gear in the air (yes, this stuff adds-up fast), then the loading on the building is considered to be twice as much (2 tons).

    There are other ways to do this that are safer (with proper training and supervision), less ugly, weigh less, and facilitate aiming the lights in-situ without a whole lot of wiggling going-on.

    Odds are, if you have a venue with no front lighting positions, then it may be old enough that the house lights and ceiling need a major renovation anyway.  This is the time to upgrade the house lights to LEDs, add stage lights, improve the room acoustics (better ceiling design), and possibly quiet-down a noisy air duct system all at the same time.  Toss-in a fresh coat of paint to spruce-up the space a bit, too.

    Will this renovation significantly tear-up the ceiling?  Maybe.  If so, seize the opportunity to update the seating, too.  Older auditoriums can have narrow seats that don't fit the modern audience's rear-ends. Wider seats may reduce your seats/row count by one seat.  Older seats may be wood or thinly padded plastic - this is both uncomfortable and it makes for poor acoustics.  If yo have seats that do not automatically fold-up the seat pan when not occupied, it is probably in violation of the Fire Code egress regulations.  Good quality padded seats present the same amount of sound absorption to a room whether it is occupied or not.  This means the room acoustics don't change significantly depending upon the number of tickets sold.  This is better for band, orchestra, drama, lectures, and choral presenters.  If the ceiling is needing renovation, this is the perfect time to replace the seats - take out the old ones, renovate the ceiling, then install new ones (and get some new carpet on the floor, too!).

    Plan for a real improvements to the auditorium, don't just scab-on a short-term solution.  Involve professionals (insert shameless plug here) to get it right and plan a composite renovation so everyone can enjoy your space.



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    Erich Friend
    Theatre Consultant
    Teqniqal Systems
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  • 3.  RE: Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-11-2017 07:24
    yes there are different ways of doing this,

    1) You could use an overhead rated winch with brake and cable management system
    2) You could use a motorized position with an electrical strip and cable management.
    3) The space could be renovated to include a catwalk.

    In any event you are going to want to discuss the needs of your option with a professional, an architect or structural engineer, this is something that will impact loads on your building and needs to be addressed properly.

    Please note: With any lowering option, you will need to have ongoing and regularly scheduled inspections by a qualified person this should be a yearly inspection and could cost you $ 1500+ per year as an ongoing maintenance item for the space.

    Other than adding a position that lowers, you might be able to address better ways of reaching the position from the floor.

    There are

    1) Lifts with platforms to use them over seats
    2) Scaffold units that can move between seats

    the question is who is allowed to use these, does the school allow you, students, or only maintenance staff to use any climbing apparatus.

    Anyone using one of these methods should be trained on the use of them and safety associated with them.

    As Erich mentioned this is best for a professional to search for the best solution to meet the needs and practicality of the space.

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    Jerry Onik
    V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
    Omaha NE
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  • 4.  RE: Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-13-2017 07:44
    Heartily a NO on the installation by staff there are too many safety and knowledge concerns, you need to have professionals perform any installation, and should have architects and engineers involved for the same reason, unless your theatrical specialist has licensed engineers on staff or involves them on your project, it is best to leave "doctorin" to doctors.

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    Jerry Onik
    V.P. Theatrical Supplies and Equipment
    Omaha NE
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  • 5.  RE: Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-11-2017 08:15
    Eric is spot on.  

    In in my experience a movable truss does work well for rough focus, but someone still has to access the instruments for final focus.  

    Just get a design and installation quote from someone like I Weiss or Texas Scenic.  This is not something you should do alone.  Your district might be able to do the install, but you will definitely want an engineer to sign off and involve you in the design process.

    A good theater firm will want to do this correctly, involving you and your district in the design process.  This is something I would look for in selecting a firm to do the work

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    Michael Johnson
    Trinity NC
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  • 6.  RE: Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-12-2017 04:26

    Michael wrote " Your district might be able to do the install,"   NO.  This is never a good idea (and I've got the pictures to back this up).  I have yet to find a school maintenance staff that had the skills to install rigging and/or stage lighting electrical & electronics properly.  Also, the school assumes an enormous liability installing anything.  Unless they can prove they have the skills and the Risk Management Department (they are the ones that decide if the school's insurance will cover them if something goes wrong) approves it, it should not even be considered.

    As to the "Just get a design and installation quote from someone like ....", I don't advocate that approach for public or private institutions.  I've seen too many projects where the contractor has installed equipment that pays little or no consideration for the room aesthetics, safety, or the true functionality of the solution.

    Hire a design team that is watching-out for the school's best interests and not their own wallet.  The design team can create a set of construction documents that can be priced by competent contractors.  This way the pricing proposals can be compared apples-to-apples (or if some significant change or exclusion is proposed, it can be objectively evaluated).  This approach assures that is someone to review shop drawings, the check the installation, and the see that the final documentation is provided.  This requires someone that is more qualified than the school's purchasing agent.

    Good stewardship of the community's funds is important.  This solution, what ever you build, will be way more expensive than the cost of a hundred boxes of copy paper, so it needs to be managed objectively and appropriately.  In many states it would be illegal to have the contractor provide a design-build solution of this magnitude that has no objective oversight.



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    Erich Friend
    Theatre Consultant
    Teqniqal Systems
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  • 7.  RE: Light truss on a winch?

    Posted 04-12-2017 18:17
    I endorse Eric 100% on this one.

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    Tracy Nunnally
    NIU - Professor/TD/Area Head
    Vertigo - Owner/System Designer
    ETCP Certified Rigger/Trainer
    DeKalb, Illinois
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