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Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

  • 1.  Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-26-2018 10:14

    Hi All:

    I hope all is well as you wind down the school year. I am in the process (like many of you) of choosing next year's production. This year the theatre department produced The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, with a cast of about 14 and the choral department produced the musical Fame. While LWW was considered a success, it had its moments of imperfection (and why not, it's a high school production?). Fame on the other hand had its issues with content and singing ability.

    So next year I'm faced with the question: Do you reduce the cast size, excluding some actors and do a show like The Glass Menagerie, or I and You. Or is it the educators obligation to include all the students you can and make it a school wide event?

    There is even more backstory that goes into this decision, one of which is that we are three years into our Arts Academy program. This is a college preparatory path for students with a strong interest in the arts. The AA kids are strong performers, but the general population students are unreliable, flaky, and don't always show up. We are in the process of gathering funds for a new black box theatre, but the growth of our Arts Academy program depends on the quality of the product on stage. We can't expect a huge investment if we don't produce work that lives up to an Arts Academy expectation.

    So, what are your thoughts? Quality versus Quantity. We are considering Rumors and The Glass Menagerie next year.

    Thanks a bunch!



    ------------------------------
    Christopher Dwyer
    Head of Drama
    Laurel MD
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-26-2018 13:27
    Personally, I feel that smaller, more intimate casts allow students to grow more. Especially shows that have a real message that aren't necessarily done a lot. Can you look at shows that have a small number of main roles and then an additional ensemble? That way, you can cast your college-bound actors in the main roles and open ensemble to the general population. I'm doing this with my musical next year. I'm directing Calvin Berger, which has a cast of 4, and then adding in an ensemble (with playwright's permission, of course) for the rest of my musical theatre class to be in.

    I've always found that I'm moved more by small cast shows. Last year I did Over the River and Through the Woods (A cast of 6) and this year I did Proof (a cast of 4). They're SO much more powerful than larger casts (I've also done Once Upon A Pandora's Box with 16 actors and All in the Timing with 17).

    I say, go for quality over quantity right now. If your program grows because of it, then maybe look into larger casted shows.

    ------------------------------
    Heather Cribbs
    Theatre Director
    New Smyrna Beach High School
    New Smyrna Beach, FL
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 05:59
    I think it really depends on your school (size, student interest, etc.). I always try to go as big as possible - partly because I hate turning kids away. My average Fall drama has a cast of 20 - 40, and even then I am still turning people away.
    I will say that I know big schools where they always do small shows, and I often get the impression (talking to students and sometimes even the teacher) that it is because the "real" play is the musical, which gets all the people, all the money, and all the attention, and the drama is just the thing they do to pass the time while they prep for the musical - and that enrages me. In your situation, it sounds like a small show because you need to produce quality work and you have a small core group to do it with, so go for it! But as your program grows, keep in mind this plea from a straight show actor who cares - grow the show to fit the cast! Don't let the drama become the ugly step-child of the musical!

    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Davis
    Plainsboro NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 07:54
    Do you mind sharing some of your favorite large-cast, high-quality shows? I feel like I dig through a million titles a year! :-)

    ------------------------------
    Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
    Theatre Department Coordinator
    Fishersville VA
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 11:02

    So large cast straight shows - in my career at East Brunswick High School I have done - not in order:
    A Midsummer Night's Dream (x2 - I do a Shakespeare every 3 yrs - we are 10-12 school, did Mid twice with different concepts)
    Up The Down Staircase
    The Rimers of Eldritch
    Tiger at the Gates

    Twelfth Night
    Romeo & Juliet
    The Odyssey
    Still Life With Iris
    Anne of Green Gables
    Pride & Prejudice
    The Crucible
    Never Mind What Happened, How Did It End

    next year will be The Tempest


    always also interested in good large cast shows if anyone else wants to share.



    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Davis
    Plainsboro NJ
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 07:28
    Great question!  We have tried to find a way to strive for both.  My students are insistent, and I agree, that our fall production has a large cast to entice new participants, especially incoming freshmen.  Our history shows that many students who don't get parts in that first fall show never come back.  Our winter production is a competition one act.  We look for a small cast show for the competition piece but pair it with a large cast, student-directed one act to stay inclusive.  Then the whole group travels with us to the regional and state festivals. In the spring the musical offers the opportunity for anyone who wants to participate, although it obviously favors singers. We want to be an open, inclusive and welcoming place, and have a strong, committed and active group of students that is remarkably supportive of each other.

    Rick Osann
    Bonny Eagle High School
    Standish, ME

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  • 7.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 07:52
    It's a difficult issue.  I have found with non-musicals that the size of the cast has a direct correlation with the size of the audience.  I have an abundance of interest and talent, which makes producing smaller shows a problem.  The smallest I've produced was 12 Angry Jurors last year. I had over 60 actors audition for 13 spots.   It was also the smallest audience we've had, and we ended up losing money on the show. My program doesn't have parent boosters; everything we produce is self-financed.  One show pays for the next.  
    My work-around for this is making every other spring show an evening of student directed one-acts.  Some of the more expereinced performers move into the directorial roles, and they select, or in some cases write, their shows.  This gives younger students a chance to move into lead and supporting roles.  This year, I have 40 performers in 4 shows: "Duality" (a student-written adaptation of Dr. Jekyll and Mr.Hyde), "The Barnhouse Effect", "The Insanity of Mary Girard" and "Check Please".  We also have a stage crew of 12.  Everyone learns from the experience.  The seniors take ownership of the program, the younger students get leads, and we are able to bring a new group of freshmen into the process.  
    For musicals, I've found that choice of show and  quality of performances beats quantity.  I've done shows with as many as 70 actors (Footloose and High School Musical), and as few as 40 (Little Shop) .  The smaller shows tend to look and sound better, and the students are more invested in them.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Ellis
    Theater I-IV Honors
    Performing Arts Department Lead
    Cosby High School
    Midlothian, VA
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 08:53
    I am in a similar position, as I teach in a charter school that is college prep, and I have a few really dedicated theatre kids, but mostly just kids who have fun with it. We have always done bigger shows to keep our audience large, but the stress of having to chase after kids who don't care and alter plans and schedules in order to fit the schedules of those who have overbooked themselves has just taken a toll on both me and the program.

    Next year, we are going to do Medea, as it is a small show with weight and relevance to our classical curriculum. We will be doing it as a winter show so that we can do student one-acts as a spring offering. I think that this format will give us a chance to reset and build on what we do well, while also leaving us open to new things in the future.

    I think that if you are drawn to smaller productions, you have to go with your gut. You won't ALWAYS feel that way. Do a smaller show as a reset, and then reevaluate where you are next season. That's one of the great, Zen things about theatre. We are constantly creating, destroying, and re-creating. If you're getting bored in this lifestyle then you're doing it wrong.

    ------------------------------
    Jonathan Foust
    Director of Dramatics
    TJCA
    Mooresboro NC
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 08:17
    The two are not mutually exclusive.  Some of the most moving and artistically rewarding shows we've done have been with casts in excess of 50 kids.  Besides my own program, I had the good fortune to be a consultant on a high school productions of "Les Miz" several years ago that lead to several of the cast receiving scholarships (one is now starring on Broadway) and numerous accolades which lead to increased funding.

    However, if you're still finding your way and are discovering how to be "artful" while also being "inclusive" here's what we do:
    In the Fall we produce our One Act Play for competition.  I limit this to my Advanced Drama students since they have demonstrated over the years the highest levels of artistic accomplishment and dedication.  The smallest was a cast/crew of 25 when we did "Crimes of the Heart" to over 50 when we did "Urinetown" (I combined my Advanced and Intermediate classes).

    Late Fall is our Holiday Showcase:
    Both our Intermediate and Advanced classes produce two 45-minute pieces for our area Elementary/Middle schools as well as one evening performance for parents and the public.  Each piece has a cast of about 20.

    In the Winter we do our Forensic/Literary/Shakespeare competitions.  The nature of these events requires a very small group.  Most of the events are individual so the students must really work to earn the opportunity to represent our school at the Region/State/National (twice!!) level.

    Then we do our Big Spring Musical.  This is a key recruitment/fund-raising tool.  Next year's budget is often based on the financial success of this show.  We average a cast/crew of 85, the largest being 120 in "High School Musical" two years ago.

    I hope this gives some guidance and perspective.  Break a Leg!!!


    ------------------------------
    Josh Ruben, M. Ed.
    Fine Arts Head
    Northwest Whitfield HS (dba, The Northwest Theatre Co.)
    Tunnel Hill, GA
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 09:24
    Quantity vs. Quality is a huge dilemma, but something else in your original post caught my eye. You described some of your students as "unreliable, flaky, and don't always show up." I believe that we need to foster student aspirations both on and off the stage, and to that end, teaching accountability and responsibility is equally important to teaching artistry. This situation is not "fair" to the students who are dedicated, but also not "fair" to the students who are demonstrating this behavior because they need to learn how to make this commitment.

    So many of our students try to juggle so many activities, and sometimes they have to make a choice. Having to choose between a sport or other activity and theatre is often seen as a conflict, but this is actually something that should be celebrated. You have an amazing student who has talent and interest in two different activities, and the opportunity to participate in both (how lucky they are!). Helping students find a balanced schedule and being honest with their ability to fully commit is an important lesson.

    Finally, this is not "fair" to you. As you continue to do an awesome job and grow this Arts Academy, you are setting a precedent that this type of behavior will be accepted, and long-term, I think that will continue to frustrate you! 

    It may be helpful to set up a vision, value system, or expectations for your program to help foster the type of students that you want to continue working with. You can even get department or administrative approval on your expectations to know they will back you up. It's important that you also get students and guardians to acknowledge the expectations, so if a student is not meeting the expectations you can take action. To help set up expectations and enforce them, check out THIS BLOG.

    I think inclusion is incredibly important so that students who are both curious and passionate about theatre can be part of the art, but for now, I'd say that teaching accountability and responsibility might need to take the driver's seat.





    ------------------------------
    Jessica Harms
    Theatre Director
    Acton MA
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 09:45
    This issue is truly something that I struggle with ALL the time!  How to select a show that caters to the students who you know are going to audition but that leaves room for new students to get involved?  I prefer smaller shows, as I feel I can give students more individual attention and they actually hone their craft, whereas working with a giant (at my school, that's 40 kids) cast, they often feel like their small, ensemble role doesn't matter.  
    So, I've tried doing some small shows but, they have a beefy crew.  The musical that I'm planning for next year has a cast of 20-30 but, we are going to need SERIOUS help backstage for costumes, special effects, period hair and makeup, and lots of tech.  So, those students who want to be involved can still have a role in the show and we can keep growing our program while providing individual attention to everyone involved.
    For the plays, they are always smaller (20 people max in the cast) because of conflicts with sports and students working.  I've done shows with 6-8 people many years.  But, we had a giant influx of kids this year, so we did a show with a cast of 16.  
    What we do every year to encourage EVERYONE to perform is our One Act Festival.  All the students enrolled in theatre classes (about 150) write original scripts to perform on the big stage.  The senior students write 10 minute plays and hold open auditions so that they can direct their owns show as their final project.  This gives tons of opportunities to kids who do sports or who want a "break out" role.  It's also less intense for students who may live out of district (abut 30%-40% of our students are in magnet centers) who can't commit to a main stage to still get to perform.   
    We have also done student-directed showcases which have supplemented small play years to keep students performing and producing shows.  
    I think the big thing is that if the teacher feels strongly about the value of the work, then the students will latch on and get involved.  There's no sense in doing a show just because it's a "big show" if the teacher hates it!  
    Pick what you love and what resonates with you :)  The kids will follow.

    ------------------------------
    Lisa Dyer
    Henrico VA
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 09:48
    If you look at Mary Zimmerman's work or plays like Wilde Tales or Peter/Wendy (both by Jeremy Bloom) or Dominic Cooke's Arabian Nights, you don't have to choose between quality and quantity. You can expand the ensembles to fit the number of committed and talented students in your group. You'll provide them with an artistic challenge and create a high-caliber piece that pleases the audience.

    Anon(ymous) by Naomi Iizuka works, too.

    Every year I look for pieces that marry quality and quantity. Sometimes I do two medium-cast shows, but we fit everyone into Arabian Nights last year easily, and it was great.

    ------------------------------
    Cassy Maxton-Whitacre
    Theatre Department Coordinator
    Fishersville VA
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 12:23
    I truly think that you can aim for both quality AND quantity.  I agree with a prior post that straight plays should never be considered lesser than musical theatre. 
    What works best for me is to have people interested in trying out for the play sign up, and then I choose the play based on the numbers which sign up.  I usually have 3-5 plays in mind, and I try to choose plays that have expanded options for "extras."  If I am overloaded with girls who wish to try out, I will choose a different <g class="gr_ gr_546 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling" id="546" data-gr-id="546">play</g> than if I am overloaded with boys.  
    I don't schedule rehearsals which include students in minor parts or in group scenes until the core actors have their scenes blocked and mostly memorized.  I find that young students--the extras--can learn from watching more experienced students rehearse; but I don't have to worry about those students being disruptive because of their inattentiveness or lack of motivation if they are there only on limited occasions.    
    As an example, we just performed The Miracle Worker, and I had over 15 people as blind girls, plantation workers, etc.--some with a few lines, and others with none.  My powerhouse actors were given a vehicle suitable for their talents, and younger actors (whom I hope will continue to rise in our program) were able to learn from the veterans.
    (By the way, I used <g class="gr_ gr_1617 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling multiReplace" id="1617" data-gr-id="1617">color-blind</g> casting, because I was not comfortable with giving our minority students plantation worker roles, and no one even questioned the decision.)

    ------------------------------
    Janette Clark
    Drama Teacher
    Minneapolis KS
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-27-2018 20:38

    You've gotten some good answers already. I do think there are pros and cons to both choices. Obviously, with a smaller cast, you can work more intensively with the actors, and you're a lot less likely to feel as if you're just doing traffic control, which can sometimes happen with a larger cast show.

    At the same time, a small-cast show means far fewer opportunities for actors, and so people who might go on to become committed members of your program lose out. Further, since many attendees come because they know someone in the show, it's usually a lot easier to attract an audience with a cast of 20 than it is with a cast of 4.

    Also--and we were lucky with this in LA for a long time before the conflict came up with Actors' Equity over 99-seat theatre (that's a whole other discussion)--there are some really magical, theatrical things that you can do with large ensembles that you can't do with a small cast.

    When I was teaching full-time, sometimes what I'd do, if I picked a smaller cast show, is write my own curtain-raiser to allow me to include talented students who weren't right for the longer show. For example, when I directed Kopit's End of the World with Symposium to Follow, I wrote a ten-minute play on a similar "doomsday" theme to open the evening, which gave 5 additional actors an opportunity to be part of the evening. It wasn't a huge strain on me or a big time commitment for them, but it got their feet in the proverbial door. In fact, I remember one particular actor who got his start in a different curtain-raiser and went on to be the most prolific actor in his class. What would have happened if I'd just turned him away? (Obviously, if you're not a playwright, you don't have to write your own curtain-raiser--there are many, many short plays out there already written. Or it could be an opportunity to develop some student-written work.)

    The one other thing I'd throw out there--and obviously it's not true of all small-cast shows--is that many/most of those really small-cast plays were written for professional adult actors in regional or off-Broadway settings, not student actors. That's not to say some of those shows aren't worth doing for educational purposes, but you might try to balance those opportunities with ones where students get to play characters closer to their age and more like themselves.

    In any case, I think it's all about finding that balance. Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Jonathan



    ------------------------------
    Jonathan Dorf
    Playwright/ Co-founder of YouthPLAYS/ Co-chair of The Alliance Of Los Angeles Playwrights
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-28-2018 13:53
    This is a great discussion! I would like to echo what others have said about quality and quantity not being mutually exclusive. In my productions, I always try to prioritize both.

    I teach at a middle school, and it's my policy to cast everyone who auditions. I really believe in this, primarily because I believe students cannot improve as performers unless they are given opportunities. I want to make sure I am providing opportunities and acting training not only to the students who are already strong actors, but also to students who may have little to no experience, but could become skilled performers if given the chance.

    From a quality standpoint -- when you open up casting to a larger group, you're developing a larger, more experienced pool of actors for future shows. This can often lead to higher-quality productions.
    (And even if a student never does another show, I hope that from a personal standpoint, they've still benefited from all of the positive educational benefits that theatre provides. I want to provide these positive experiences to as many students as I can.)

    That being said, my way certainly isn't the only way. There's no "right" way to cast your shows -- you have to do what works best for your school, program, and students. I recognize that the needs of a high school program can be different from a middle school program. I also know that if the cast size gets large enough, you can reach a point of diminishing returns. I usually have 30-50 students auditioning, which is manageable for me -- but at some larger middle schools, it's common to have 80-100 (or more!). If I had that many students auditioning for my shows, I might have to rethink my casting policy!

    Regarding the question of quality vs. quantity, I really do believe that you can have both. My experience has been that when you set a high bar for everyone, students really do rise to the challenge. Your most experienced students can also help model this for the newbies. I always try to be really intentional with my casting and staging so everyone has a chance to be featured. (Dividing the ensemble into smaller sub-groups is one way to do this.) Finally, I try to plan my rehearsal schedule carefully, calling smaller groups of actors when I can, so that students still get individualized attention.

    I won't pretend that it's easy, or that I can always provide as much individualized attention as I hope to provide! But for me, including more students in the production has always been worth it.

    Once again, though, my way certainly isn't the only way. Small-cast shows have their own benefits -- and every school has its own individual needs. I wish you the best of luck with the shows and with your program!




    ------------------------------
    Elizabeth Berg
    Drama Teacher
    Ashland Middle School
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-28-2018 14:35
    When I was teaching, I thought of it this way:

    My job was not simply to produce and direct great shows. My job was also to create a community. Many of the "theatre kids" never wanted to go home, and being in a show was not only exciting, but gave them a community, helped them make friends, and gave them a place to go. So when a kid gets rejected from the show, they're losing a lot more than simply a chance to play a role. They're kind of missing a home. 

    So I tried to do big shows, (and I'm not saying you have to cast everyone, obviously, but I really tried not to turn kids away), and I think you can do great, large-cast shows. That said, if kids don't have commitment to the show, cut `em loose, since you don't need that poisoning the community. 

    I wrote quite a few for large groups, and have continued to do that over the years, so I do think there's some quality large-cast, (NEWER) shows out there.

    ------------------------------
    Don Zolidis
    Austin TX
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-28-2018 15:07
    ​Great discussion all,

    We do three shows a year. One very big musical that allows us usually to engage the elementary and middle school students. This is a recruiting opportunity and fills our 935 seat auditorium. This allows for a much smaller Spring musical and play in May.

    We have to keep the lights on and have money to produce our shows and that is why we do the larger production with a big cast to subsidize the smaller production in our program.

    ------------------------------
    Crit Fisher
    Lighting/Sound Designer
    New Albany High School
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 05-04-2018 13:53
    You write great plays, Mr. Zolidis! :-)  When I was coaching competitive forensics, scenes from your shows were ubiquitous, and my students were successful with several of them.  If there are people in this forum who have not read some of these plays, check them out!  They allow for great large cast opportunities.

    ------------------------------
    Janette Clark
    Drama Teacher
    Minneapolis KS
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-30-2018 10:25
    One thing that a lot of schools don't have to consider is that the profits from my play not only go toward the next play, but also pay for my contest entry fees for competition speech (our speech teams are over 120 students).  The nature of the beast is that the better the speech students do in large group and individual speech contests, the larger the entry fees, performance rights, and costs for awards, etc.  I am usually looking for large plays because they draw a larger audience, and that pays the bills. 

    Do I like it?  In many ways, no.  There are lots of times I would prefer to do smaller shows.  But I agree that theater is a beautiful, safe community for a lot of kids who don't have other places to get positive life experiences, so I guess I will continue to do large shows despite their challenges.

    ------------------------------
    Lisa Ronca
    Huxley IA
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-30-2018 14:45
    Great discussion.   As a playwright, one writes plays they would hope get produced.   Thus, playwrights might try to write smaller show casts because its so difficult to get a larger show produced.    Only schools would be open to larger shows by lesser known writers and most schools won't produce something that is unknown.     So its a dilemma.   If you want more large cast shows, give the new playwright a chance and try to do a new show rather than one that is fifty years old.    You might get a larger pool of good plays as a consequence.

    ------------------------------
    Leon Kaye
    Playwright for the Ages
    Lhk@koa1.com
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Quantitiy vs. Quality: Choosing your next production

    Posted 04-30-2018 17:05
    We do two plays in the fall so I can check off all the boxes with smaller cast shows.

    Sometimes that is a big show and a small show (this past year it was MEMPHIS and BLITHE SPIRIT) and other years it is two small shows -- like next fall will be.

    Depending on how many kids are have I can mix and match them to the show. Almost never does a kid get to do both show and certainly not lead roles in both plays in the fall.

    We also do some small plays in the classroom theatre / blackbox so more kids get to be in plays and have a meaningful experience.

    ------------------------------
    Mark A. Zimmerman,

    Theatre Director
    Akron School for the Arts
    Firestone Community Learning Center
    470 Castle Blvd
    Akron, Ohio 44313

    Troupe 5570

    mzimmerm@apslearn.org
    ------------------------------