Open Forum

Hello All,

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE LIGHTING REP PLOT" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Hi,

In Indiana, technical theatre falls under the fine arts although CTE does exist. As for my district, my technical theatre students receive instruction on how to climb ladders (three points of contact, belt buckle rule). In regard to climbing to the FOH, they are trained to use fall arrest for the initial twelve foot climb.

My students do not use our lift, and I use it sparingly.

Our school district has not set guidelines for what students can and cannot do in the theatre.
They rely on my expertise, common sense in regard to the nature of our work (students need to climb, use power tools, run linesets, etc.) and always, at my recommendation, keep an eye on OSHA and ANSI standards.

Thanks,

Dana

------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-17-2018 18:24
From: Elizabeth Rand
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hello All,

I wanted to share with you that I just received my Colorado CTE Teaching Certificate (CTE Performing Arts 7-12)!  Woo hoo!  Not that I intend to use it as a tech theatre teacher per se (although I'm also a certified theatre teacher as well), but since I work with high school students all the time in my position as a freelance lighting designer and high school theatre operations coach, I thought it would be good to document (to admin in particular) that I have the credentials that allow me to educate and supervise students in hazardous situations such as we find in the theatre.   

 

I'm sharing this because it got me to thinking.... that more specifically what I want to supervise students doing is to use ladders and lifts(!). And that seems to be one of the major things that many districts and/or schools won't allow students to do, despite the fact that they allow all other CTE students (woodshop, culinary, welding, automotive, and so on) to perform hazardous tasks - admin seem to have a mental block about tech theatre students actually being able to learn their craft.  Does the woodshop teacher saw all the bits of wood for the students, does the culinary teacher chop up all the meat with sharp knives and put it in the hot oven for the students?  I think not! 

 

I've been looking at the Colorado state standards, grade level expectations, competencies, and 21st Century Skills specifically for CTE Tech Theatre, and (using different wording) they all agree on one thing - that students must be able to relevantly apply/implement/demonstrate/execute their knowledge. How can you apply your theoretical knowledge of how to focus a light, install a hanging mic, or paint a tall set piece, etc, if you can't be up a ladder or a lift (other than the cats, of course...)?  How does that prepare you for CTE skills in the 'real world' if you can't apply and practice them in high school in a CTE subject area?

 

OK, I know I'm preaching to the choir here and those are rhetorical questions, but I was wondering if you would be willing to share what your school's policies are about students using ladders and lifts in Tech Theatre?  If you are a CTE certified teacher does that make a difference?  If you are teaching an actual Tech Theatre class (as opposed to it being an after school '"activity") does that make a difference?  For those of you who are allowed to have students use ladders and lifts to hang and focus lights, hang mics, paint tall set pieces, and so on, how have you gained the support from your admin?  What are your state's requirements for becoming a CTE teacher?  What are your state's standards, grade level expectations, etc, for CTE Tech Theatre?  Is Tech Theatre even a CTE subject in your state?  I thought it would be interesting to start a conversation around this issue, in the hopes that perhaps we can apply/implement/demonstrate/execute insights shared for the benefit of all our Tech Theatre students.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE LIGHTING REP PLOT" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Hi Dana! 

Thanks for responding!  I'm curious why your students don't, and you rarely do, use the lift?  I'm wondering if it's because you have cats and use a ladder on stage, so you rarely need the lift?  Is it because it's hard to access a lift that is used by the whole school?  Those are circumstances I've come across, so I was just wondering....  (Although one high school I was at once had a dedicated lift for the theatre - luxury!)

I've found it's not uncommon for districts to not set theatre safety guidelines, and that the best thing a teacher can do is to act as if OSHA and ANSI apply to everyone. It not only protects your students, but it protects you as a teacher too.  I'm not a safety expert, but my mantra is - document everything!  If something were to happen, you can prove that you have done everything you could to keep those kiddos safe!  Although, in his book "Dr Doom" does state that ultimately safety is the administration's responsibility!

Any other teachers find this to be the case as well - that admin is unaware, and it's up to you to enforce safety?

Any one else allowed to use ladders and lifts with their students?

Thanks again for your response Dana!

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE SAFETY MANUAL" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-18-2018 12:35
From: Dana Taylor
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hi,

In Indiana, technical theatre falls under the fine arts although CTE does exist. As for my district, my technical theatre students receive instruction on how to climb ladders (three points of contact, belt buckle rule). In regard to climbing to the FOH, they are trained to use fall arrest for the initial twelve foot climb.

My students do not use our lift, and I use it sparingly.

Our school district has not set guidelines for what students can and cannot do in the theatre.
They rely on my expertise, common sense in regard to the nature of our work (students need to climb, use power tools, run linesets, etc.) and always, at my recommendation, keep an eye on OSHA and ANSI standards.

Thanks,

Dana

------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN

Original Message:
Sent: 03-17-2018 18:24
From: Elizabeth Rand
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hello All,

I wanted to share with you that I just received my Colorado CTE Teaching Certificate (CTE Performing Arts 7-12)!  Woo hoo!  Not that I intend to use it as a tech theatre teacher per se (although I'm also a certified theatre teacher as well), but since I work with high school students all the time in my position as a freelance lighting designer and high school theatre operations coach, I thought it would be good to document (to admin in particular) that I have the credentials that allow me to educate and supervise students in hazardous situations such as we find in the theatre.   

 

I'm sharing this because it got me to thinking.... that more specifically what I want to supervise students doing is to use ladders and lifts(!). And that seems to be one of the major things that many districts and/or schools won't allow students to do, despite the fact that they allow all other CTE students (woodshop, culinary, welding, automotive, and so on) to perform hazardous tasks - admin seem to have a mental block about tech theatre students actually being able to learn their craft.  Does the woodshop teacher saw all the bits of wood for the students, does the culinary teacher chop up all the meat with sharp knives and put it in the hot oven for the students?  I think not! 

 

I've been looking at the Colorado state standards, grade level expectations, competencies, and 21st Century Skills specifically for CTE Tech Theatre, and (using different wording) they all agree on one thing - that students must be able to relevantly apply/implement/demonstrate/execute their knowledge. How can you apply your theoretical knowledge of how to focus a light, install a hanging mic, or paint a tall set piece, etc, if you can't be up a ladder or a lift (other than the cats, of course...)?  How does that prepare you for CTE skills in the 'real world' if you can't apply and practice them in high school in a CTE subject area?

 

OK, I know I'm preaching to the choir here and those are rhetorical questions, but I was wondering if you would be willing to share what your school's policies are about students using ladders and lifts in Tech Theatre?  If you are a CTE certified teacher does that make a difference?  If you are teaching an actual Tech Theatre class (as opposed to it being an after school '"activity") does that make a difference?  For those of you who are allowed to have students use ladders and lifts to hang and focus lights, hang mics, paint tall set pieces, and so on, how have you gained the support from your admin?  What are your state's requirements for becoming a CTE teacher?  What are your state's standards, grade level expectations, etc, for CTE Tech Theatre?  Is Tech Theatre even a CTE subject in your state?  I thought it would be interesting to start a conversation around this issue, in the hopes that perhaps we can apply/implement/demonstrate/execute insights shared for the benefit of all our Tech Theatre students.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE LIGHTING REP PLOT" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

I find that it's always up to me as the rd to enforce safety on all equipment especially ladders and lifts. I believe there is technically a law that anyone under the age of 14 can not do anything on ladders or lifts or really even use power tools unless it's in a vocational program dedicated to that field.  Which of course is a big problem for theatre. I try my best to lay down the low when it comes to safety. Most of the time I don't let the students on the lifts but that could change. If I have I have chosen the student because I know they are trustworthy but I don't leave the site at all.  I have taken some OSHA classes and I find it helpful to know some of that info just to better understand everything.

------------------------------
Dan Mellitz
Technical Director
St Andrews School
Barrington, RI
Www.techiegreenroom.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-19-2018 12:14
From: Elizabeth Rand
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hi Dana!

Thanks for responding!  I'm curious why your students don't, and you rarely do, use the lift?  I'm wondering if it's because you have cats and use a ladder on stage, so you rarely need the lift?  Is it because it's hard to access a lift that is used by the whole school?  Those are circumstances I've come across, so I was just wondering....  (Although one high school I was at once had a dedicated lift for the theatre - luxury!)

I've found it's not uncommon for districts to not set theatre safety guidelines, and that the best thing a teacher can do is to act as if OSHA and ANSI apply to everyone. It not only protects your students, but it protects you as a teacher too.  I'm not a safety expert, but my mantra is - document everything!  If something were to happen, you can prove that you have done everything you could to keep those kiddos safe!  Although, in his book "Dr Doom" does state that ultimately safety is the administration's responsibility!

Any other teachers find this to be the case as well - that admin is unaware, and it's up to you to enforce safety?

Any one else allowed to use ladders and lifts with their students?

Thanks again for your response Dana!

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE SAFETY MANUAL" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO

Original Message:
Sent: 03-18-2018 12:35
From: Dana Taylor
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hi,

In Indiana, technical theatre falls under the fine arts although CTE does exist. As for my district, my technical theatre students receive instruction on how to climb ladders (three points of contact, belt buckle rule). In regard to climbing to the FOH, they are trained to use fall arrest for the initial twelve foot climb.

My students do not use our lift, and I use it sparingly.

Our school district has not set guidelines for what students can and cannot do in the theatre.
They rely on my expertise, common sense in regard to the nature of our work (students need to climb, use power tools, run linesets, etc.) and always, at my recommendation, keep an eye on OSHA and ANSI standards.

Thanks,

Dana

------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN

Original Message:
Sent: 03-17-2018 18:24
From: Elizabeth Rand
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hello All,

I wanted to share with you that I just received my Colorado CTE Teaching Certificate (CTE Performing Arts 7-12)!  Woo hoo!  Not that I intend to use it as a tech theatre teacher per se (although I'm also a certified theatre teacher as well), but since I work with high school students all the time in my position as a freelance lighting designer and high school theatre operations coach, I thought it would be good to document (to admin in particular) that I have the credentials that allow me to educate and supervise students in hazardous situations such as we find in the theatre.   

 

I'm sharing this because it got me to thinking.... that more specifically what I want to supervise students doing is to use ladders and lifts(!). And that seems to be one of the major things that many districts and/or schools won't allow students to do, despite the fact that they allow all other CTE students (woodshop, culinary, welding, automotive, and so on) to perform hazardous tasks - admin seem to have a mental block about tech theatre students actually being able to learn their craft.  Does the woodshop teacher saw all the bits of wood for the students, does the culinary teacher chop up all the meat with sharp knives and put it in the hot oven for the students?  I think not! 

 

I've been looking at the Colorado state standards, grade level expectations, competencies, and 21st Century Skills specifically for CTE Tech Theatre, and (using different wording) they all agree on one thing - that students must be able to relevantly apply/implement/demonstrate/execute their knowledge. How can you apply your theoretical knowledge of how to focus a light, install a hanging mic, or paint a tall set piece, etc, if you can't be up a ladder or a lift (other than the cats, of course...)?  How does that prepare you for CTE skills in the 'real world' if you can't apply and practice them in high school in a CTE subject area?

 

OK, I know I'm preaching to the choir here and those are rhetorical questions, but I was wondering if you would be willing to share what your school's policies are about students using ladders and lifts in Tech Theatre?  If you are a CTE certified teacher does that make a difference?  If you are teaching an actual Tech Theatre class (as opposed to it being an after school '"activity") does that make a difference?  For those of you who are allowed to have students use ladders and lifts to hang and focus lights, hang mics, paint tall set pieces, and so on, how have you gained the support from your admin?  What are your state's requirements for becoming a CTE teacher?  What are your state's standards, grade level expectations, etc, for CTE Tech Theatre?  Is Tech Theatre even a CTE subject in your state?  I thought it would be interesting to start a conversation around this issue, in the hopes that perhaps we can apply/implement/demonstrate/execute insights shared for the benefit of all our Tech Theatre students.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE LIGHTING REP PLOT" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Yes, that's exactly correct – minors may not use ladders and lifts (or do a lot of the hazardous things that are inherent to the theatre) unless…. they are in a "bona fide vocational program". Tech Theatre is a CTE subject (separate from Drama – acting). But, what constitutes a "vocational program" I have yet to find the definition of!  Some states seem to say it's only in a CTE class taught by a CTE certified teacher, but some seem to be ok with an 'after school activity'. However, either way, it's hard to get the understanding and support of admin, and, as Dana says, many school districts – or even some states - don't have any guidelines for theatre safety, or even recognize tech theatre as a CTE subject. Most conscientious theatre staff (teachers and techs) are left with enforcing safety on their own. It's very interesting, because the guidelines for other CTE subjects' safety are very, very strict – tech theatre seems to be the 'poor (and ignored) cousin' of the CTE family.

Does anyone out there have any overt positive support for CTE Tech Theatre from their admin? And if so, do you have any tips to share to help this become the norm?

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE SAFETY MANUAL" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-17-2018 18:24
From: Elizabeth Rand
Subject: Ladders and Lifts

Hello All,

I wanted to share with you that I just received my Colorado CTE Teaching Certificate (CTE Performing Arts 7-12)!  Woo hoo!  Not that I intend to use it as a tech theatre teacher per se (although I'm also a certified theatre teacher as well), but since I work with high school students all the time in my position as a freelance lighting designer and high school theatre operations coach, I thought it would be good to document (to admin in particular) that I have the credentials that allow me to educate and supervise students in hazardous situations such as we find in the theatre.   

 

I'm sharing this because it got me to thinking.... that more specifically what I want to supervise students doing is to use ladders and lifts(!). And that seems to be one of the major things that many districts and/or schools won't allow students to do, despite the fact that they allow all other CTE students (woodshop, culinary, welding, automotive, and so on) to perform hazardous tasks - admin seem to have a mental block about tech theatre students actually being able to learn their craft.  Does the woodshop teacher saw all the bits of wood for the students, does the culinary teacher chop up all the meat with sharp knives and put it in the hot oven for the students?  I think not! 

 

I've been looking at the Colorado state standards, grade level expectations, competencies, and 21st Century Skills specifically for CTE Tech Theatre, and (using different wording) they all agree on one thing - that students must be able to relevantly apply/implement/demonstrate/execute their knowledge. How can you apply your theoretical knowledge of how to focus a light, install a hanging mic, or paint a tall set piece, etc, if you can't be up a ladder or a lift (other than the cats, of course...)?  How does that prepare you for CTE skills in the 'real world' if you can't apply and practice them in high school in a CTE subject area?

 

OK, I know I'm preaching to the choir here and those are rhetorical questions, but I was wondering if you would be willing to share what your school's policies are about students using ladders and lifts in Tech Theatre?  If you are a CTE certified teacher does that make a difference?  If you are teaching an actual Tech Theatre class (as opposed to it being an after school '"activity") does that make a difference?  For those of you who are allowed to have students use ladders and lifts to hang and focus lights, hang mics, paint tall set pieces, and so on, how have you gained the support from your admin?  What are your state's requirements for becoming a CTE teacher?  What are your state's standards, grade level expectations, etc, for CTE Tech Theatre?  Is Tech Theatre even a CTE subject in your state?  I thought it would be interesting to start a conversation around this issue, in the hopes that perhaps we can apply/implement/demonstrate/execute insights shared for the benefit of all our Tech Theatre students.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

Next HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE MANAGEMENT ONLINE COURSE for Drama Teachers: Spring Session closed. Summer session starts June 4th.

NEW SERVICE: REP PLOT DESIGN - Never have to re-hang and re-focus all your lights again! (Can be accomplished remotely if you're not in the Boulder/Denver area.)

Author of "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS" and "HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE LIGHTING REP PLOT" and several more books at http://www.presett.org/helpful-books-for-you.html.

www.PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------