Open Forum

The advantage to electrics is that it's safer, without the need to climb around catwalks, wear safety harnesses, and the like. Probably also easier on your construction budget.

The advantage to cats is that you can see what you're focusing immediately. Electrics, you generally have to raise and lower repeatedly as you tweak your focus and check your work.

But what a fun choice to consider. Enjoy!

------------------------------
Josh Kauffman
Teacher
Winfield AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

I had the opposite situation. In our old theatre we could raise and lower our lighting pipes manually. In our new theatre they are dead hung. I hate that. I loved being able to lower them. Got the whole cast and crew involved in lighting design, etc. Even my actors knew what a Fresnel was! Cat walks cut out non trained kids or those who fear heights.

------------------------------
Elisabeth Ledwell
Falmouth MA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

I would advocate for cats over the audience with electrics on stage.  Lowering a baton to hang one instrument, like for a meeting, etc-- is a pain in the rear and using cats can really be a great teaching experience. Some instruments can be stored up on the cat for class or meetings, specials etc.  Cats also allow one to do some other rigging work, which can sometimes really enhance productions.  With electrics over stage, you'll have the best of both worlds.  Being able to raise and lower those would be fantastic and sure beats an A Frame with extension or set of scaffolding on wheels any day.

------------------------------
Michael Johnson
Trinity NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-26-2019 05:40
From: Elisabeth Ledwell
Subject: electrical advice

I had the opposite situation. In our old theatre we could raise and lower our lighting pipes manually. In our new theatre they are dead hung. I hate that. I loved being able to lower them. Got the whole cast and crew involved in lighting design, etc. Even my actors knew what a Fresnel was! Cat walks cut out non trained kids or those who fear heights.

------------------------------
Elisabeth Ledwell
Falmouth MA

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

There are arguments for both, but nothing beats the speed, versatility, and teaching opportunities (safety, teamwork, problem solving) of a catwalk.  You can fix blown lamps and make other adjustments in the middle of a production with minimal or no distractions.  While flying electrics is a much safer alternative, I'd ask for the catwalk and see what your school's insurance experts say.

------------------------------
Josh Ruben, M. Ed.
Fine Arts Head
Northwest Whitfield HS (dba, The Northwest Theatre Co.)
Tunnel Hill, GA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

For our school’s new thrust theatre construction, I argued for a tension wire grid. It offers safety, great flexibility and here is the surprise — it was cheaper than catwalks!!! Maybe this could be a consideration for your space?

It has been in use now for 9 years and about 124 productions. I set up a stock lighting plot illuminating 12 areas from each of 4 directions that are fixed. There are 4 ERS that are fixed for lighting side of stage entrances and our two Shakespeare windows high up to the side of the stage. We also have 4 ERS from the corners for gobos and three moving lights (2 from front of stage corners and 1 from CTR back). We have an extra 4 ERS and 24 pars w/barn doors that can be added to the plot (and struck following) as each production has a need. If we had LED’s, it’d be easy to change color, but for now we swap out gels. We have an ETC Element that is very easy to train our different grade level technical theatre students on.

We have a 6-12 Theatre Arts Program and do 13 productions a year so this space is always busy.

I think it you have enough overhead space, a tension wire grid could even work over the audience in a proscenium style space in some abbreviated way - maybe as expanded catwalks you can light through! You can google Skydeck to see examples.

We sure appreciate our flexibility and the safety our tension wire grid affords our students.

Wayne Kischer
Auditorium Manager
Theatre Arts Center Manager
Waukee Schools
Waukee, Iowa




Sent from my iPhone


Original Message------

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

Hi,

Are you saying that there will be two moving electrical battens over the audience
or are they over the stage? If over the audience, are they manual counterweight systems or 
automated?

In general, I would prefer catwalks in that it is far easier to focus and will be devoid of the
guess and check issues (although there is a method to minimize the difficulty).  I realize that
some students will not wish to go up there but if you are dealing with counterweight rigging,
this is potentially far more dangerous than climbing to the front of house (assuming it is built correctly).

Is a theatre consultant involved in this process?

Thanks,

Dana












------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

All of the points so far are really great things you need to be considering (also consider if you have pipes above the seating rather than cats, how will you access the lighting instruments?).  And yes, safety is a BIG issue, and for that I refer you to my recent post (#12) in the Stage Craft Class discussion.

But before you can decide any of this - how many front of house positions you need compared to over stage positions, and which should be more accessible - you need to design your Rep Plot FIRST.  Think about it as "designing backwards".  How many areas will you need to cover your stage.  Each area should be lit from 45 degrees.  Where does 45 degrees from each area optimally place the lighting positions? 

Here's an excerpt for you from my book High School Theatre Lighting for Architects; Designing Backwards that talks about why you need to "design backwards":

Designing Backwards

We must Design Backwards because the type of equipment installed and the locations this equipment is installed in, directly affects building functionality, student learning and faculty retention. I've seen too many extravagant high school theatre stage lighting systems go to complete waste and not be used to their full potential because the design was not suitable to the users' abilities or budget.

Without a background in stage lighting it is of course impossible to plan for every eventuality and for you to catch everything a theatre person would (even with a stage lighting background there is no way to plan for every eventuality!).  But, reading this book and learning about the end functions of stage lighting, will help determine the initial design decisions you make, and help avoid the types of the issues Jo found in the opening vignette.  You'll learn where to place catwalks and electrics, how many you will need, and how many circuits to provide, what lighting instruments to spec, what type of light board the situation requires, and lots more.  More importantly this book will show you the "why".  Why do catwalks need to be placed at 45 degrees? Why is state-of-the-art not always the best choice? Why do I need to spec this number of these instruments? When you know the why, then you will know the what, and you'll be Designing Backwards.

 
And here's an excerpt for you from my book The High School Theatre Lighting Rep Plot that talks about why you need a Rep Plot:


A SYSTEM FOR ALL

Although every event that comes into a theatre is unique, there is a way to provide a lighting system that can easily be applied to many uses of the space with only small adjustments that need to be made for specific requirements of a show or event.  This is called a Rep Plot (short for Repertory Plot). 

A Rep Plot is a standardized lighting system, which is versatile for almost all performances and can be easily adapted to provide lighting for any event from class meetings, speakers, film presentations, variety shows, band and choir concerts to plays, musicals and dance recitals, while allowing for show-specific flexibility within a reasonable time frame.

A light plot could be designed from scratch for every specific show or event in your high school theatre if you really want, but a lighting plot that is re-designed over and over again is more suited to the university level, where all the students are learning lighting as a vocational choice, and where it is necessary to start each lighting design "from scratch" as a part of the curriculum. In the high school theatre setting, there is usually very little time - or money - to completely re-design (and re-hang, re-focus, re-patch and re-cue) a Light Plot from scratch for each event. So a Rep Plot, which can be designed to accommodate multiple types of events, makes much more sense. 

This book will take you through a step-by-step process to design, hang, focus and patch your own rep plot at your high school.  This book assumes that you already have a working knowledge of the theatrical process, but just don't have experience with theatrical lighting.

Before we begin the actual step-by-step process it's essential to know the 'why of the how'. The first few chapters will take you through the reasons behind what you are doing.  Through learning the theory you will be able to better apply the practical.    


And so, you can see why you need to "design backwards" – design your Rep Plot FIRST, and that will inform you how many cats and electrics you need, and where these should be placed.

------------------------------
Beth Rand, EBMS
Educational Lighting Designer
School Theatre Operations Coach

www.PRESETT.org
- LIGHTING INSTITUTE FOR THEATRE TEACHERS - ONLINE MINI COURSES (ask for complimentary syllabus)
- HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS ONLINE COURSE FOR TEACHERS (ask for complimentary syllabus)
- HIGH SCHOOL THEATRE OPERATIONS BOOKS and COMPLIMENTARY ARTICLE DOWNLOADS
- THE ECLECTECH SHOPPE

beth@PRESETT.org
Westminster, CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-26-2019 12:00
From: Dana Taylor
Subject: electrical advice

Hi,

Are you saying that there will be two moving electrical battens over the audience
or are they over the stage? If over the audience, are they manual counterweight systems or
automated?

In general, I would prefer catwalks in that it is far easier to focus and will be devoid of the
guess and check issues (although there is a method to minimize the difficulty).  I realize that
some students will not wish to go up there but if you are dealing with counterweight rigging,
this is potentially far more dangerous than climbing to the front of house (assuming it is built correctly).

Is a theatre consultant involved in this process?

Thanks,

Dana












------------------------------
Dana Taylor
MSD of Mt. Vernon
Evansville IN

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

Hi all

I will side with those who recommend catwalks or (shudder) even wire tension grids.  Moving battens aver the house are a fairly recent development (recent for this old guy anyway) that appear to have been someone's solution to the assumption that catwalks are inherently dangerous.  If you think about it, properly designed catwalks are no more dangerous than a footbridge over a busy road.

My position comes from one who is both an educator and a practicing professional.  As an educator, I want to train my students how to function in the professional world, and as a professional, it is hard to REtrain a young person who thinks that moving battens over the audience are standard.  I won't launch into a long diatribe, but I ask you all to keep this in mind:  If we, as educators, train our students to use ladders safely, hang and focus lighting instruments safely, and (fill in your blank here) safely, we support the beginning of their journey by sending them along the correct path. 

That's my $0.02 worth :-).

Thanks!!

------------------------------
Tracy Nunnally
NIU - Professor/TD/Area Head
Vertigo - Owner/System Designer
ETCP Certified Rigger/Trainer
DeKalb, Illinois
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511

 

Lighting is not my field, so I didn't want to poke in here. However, I will totally side with Tracy as to how hard (and how sad) it is to have to re-train someone once they start working in the professional field. I've had to do this a number of times, and it hasn't been a pleasant experience for any of us. And, ultimately, it boils down to, if you want to continue working here, you need to do it correctly.

Because it's not just about you -- it's about everyone else working here.

------------------------------
George F. Ledo
Set designer
www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
www.georgefledo.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-27-2019 21:15
From: Tracy Nunnally
Subject: electrical advice

Hi all

I will side with those who recommend catwalks or (shudder) even wire tension grids.  Moving battens aver the house are a fairly recent development (recent for this old guy anyway) that appear to have been someone's solution to the assumption that catwalks are inherently dangerous.  If you think about it, properly designed catwalks are no more dangerous than a footbridge over a busy road.

My position comes from one who is both an educator and a practicing professional.  As an educator, I want to train my students how to function in the professional world, and as a professional, it is hard to REtrain a young person who thinks that moving battens over the audience are standard.  I won't launch into a long diatribe, but I ask you all to keep this in mind:  If we, as educators, train our students to use ladders safely, hang and focus lighting instruments safely, and (fill in your blank here) safely, we support the beginning of their journey by sending them along the correct path.

That's my $0.02 worth :-).

Thanks!!

------------------------------
Tracy Nunnally
NIU - Professor/TD/Area Head
Vertigo - Owner/System Designer
ETCP Certified Rigger/Trainer
DeKalb, Illinois

Original Message:
Sent: 01-25-2019 10:27
From: Tina Tutt
Subject: electrical advice

Hi All, 

We are building a new theatre at our school and we have been asked if we want two catwalks for the lighting over the seats or two electrics that lower and raise. Any thoughts? Pros/cons to either system? 

We have been in a cafetorium with dead hung electrics and we use a lift to move/focus the lights, so not sure which would be better. 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Tina Tutt

MS Theatre, 7th grade Team Leader

 

To ignite and nurture student curiosity, intellect, and character

Battle Ground Academy

336 Ernest Rice Lane | Franklin, TN 37069

(615) 567-8511