Open Forum

"Pesky copyright laws" cannot be "circumvented by using an ASCAP license." Your friend and their theatre company have been poorly advised and have put themselves at risk. To begin with, ASCAP isn't even the only rights agency.

Blanket ASCAP licenses and others like it cover the performance of songs under the concept of "small rights." Theatrical performances fall under the concept of "grand rights," which are entirely different. This piece from MTI is a useful primer: Do's and Don'ts of Licensing

Of course, contrarians might take the position that MTI has a vested interest, and dispute their position. Here's another helpful bit of guidance.
Music Rights for Plays and Musicals

I would advise you do not rely on secondhand information. If you have questions, consult an attorney with expertise not simply in intellectual property, but specifically in musical and dramatic rights. I would also suggest that attempting to circumvent copyright protection and rights payments is setting a bad example for your students – they need to understand that artists not only need to, but have the right to, earn money from what they create, which is why copyright exists in the first place.

------------------------------
Howard Sherman
New York NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2017 08:49
From: Myndee Washington
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

I recently had a discussion with a friend, who told me that their community theatre "found out" that all of those pesky copyright laws can be circumvented by using an ASCAP license. She told me that they didn't bother with the "no costume, no staging, song limiting" copyright rules anymore. Could someone please give me the correct legal points for this argument? Putting on a "review" is brought up, as a solution when money is tight or rights are not available and I always get put on the defensive, when I try to do what is legal. 

Please help me with an air tight answer to give.

Here are two articles that might be of interest to you. They explain the background of the current copyright laws.

Mickey's Headed to the Public Domain! But Will He Go Quietly? - Office of Copyright
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/10/25/15-years-ago-congress-kept-mickey-mouse-out-of-the-public-domain-will-they-do-it-again/?utm_term=.4e51ef2f8862#comments

As far as ASCAP or BMI is concerned, they only cover songs when used individually. The copyright on a musical also covers the book and ASCAP/BMI have no authority to grant those rights. You might be able to use ASCAP/BMI  if you are doing a music revue that you are righting. But again a good entertainment or copyright lawyer.

Copyright owners and their publishers take this seriously. Many years ago I directed a production of Ibsen's The Wild Duck. I read many translations, including a version held by Samuel French. I used a different translation and got permission from the translator. After the production was over, I received a panicked call from a theatre in a nearby town. Samuel French had frozen rights to all of their works for the entire region, because they suspected that we had done their version of the play without permission. I had to prove that we used a different version before, they would release the right to a different play for a different small community theatre company in a different city. 

In 1989, Disney went so far as to issue a cease and desist order to several daycare centers in Florida, forcing them to take down murals of Disney characters. Universal/Hanna Barbera stepped in (in order to give Disney a black eye) and offered their cartoon characters (<nobr>Scooby-Doo,</nobr> the Flintstones, the Jetsons, and Yogi Bear) as a replacement.

These major companies have clipping services that track their properties across the world. And any infringement, no matter how small, may come under their scrutiny and become subject to action.

When the potential for loss of revenue is involved, the mouse grow fangs.

------------------------------
James Van Leishout
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2017 08:49
From: Myndee Washington
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

I recently had a discussion with a friend, who told me that their community theatre "found out" that all of those pesky copyright laws can be circumvented by using an ASCAP license. She told me that they didn't bother with the "no costume, no staging, song limiting" copyright rules anymore. Could someone please give me the correct legal points for this argument? Putting on a "review" is brought up, as a solution when money is tight or rights are not available and I always get put on the defensive, when I try to do what is legal. 

Please help me with an air tight answer to give.

As a writer and composer, I have always been a strong supporter of copyright.  I just finished my first year as the solo theatre teacher of a rather large program and we had an interesting copyright story this last year..

When my students do sound designs for show, I required that all cues are either original or we have documentation of obtaining rights to perform.  I explain that while our ASCAP license covers pre, post and intermission music cues, any music that is uses as a cue within the show, is not covered.  

The show we were doing required a specific 1980s pop song to be played. I emailed the rights holder (a big music company) several times and had no response to my request.  Finally I called them and they literally laughed at me.  They said once every couple years they get a request like this.  I was told that high school productions aren't really worth their time.  The rep went on to say (though he said he would deny saying it), just use the piece like everyone else; the insinuation being "don't bother us with trivial stuff like this again." 

I was a little shocked to get this response.  I had licensed a similar song to use in a different show several years ago in a regional theatre and they charged us like $25/show. But to tell us they have no time to worry about licensing to high schools and to just use it because it is easier for them...  It was strange.  

We ended up using the song, the rep had given me verbal permission so I did it.

------------------------------
Jeremy Riggs
Director of Theatre
Blue Valley North
bvntheatre.org
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-13-2017 09:52
From: James Van Leishout
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

Here are two articles that might be of interest to you. They explain the background of the current copyright laws.

Mickey's Headed to the Public Domain! But Will He Go Quietly? - Office of Copyright
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/10/25/15-years-ago-congress-kept-mickey-mouse-out-of-the-public-domain-will-they-do-it-again/?utm_term=.4e51ef2f8862#comments

As far as ASCAP or BMI is concerned, they only cover songs when used individually. The copyright on a musical also covers the book and ASCAP/BMI have no authority to grant those rights. You might be able to use ASCAP/BMI  if you are doing a music revue that you are righting. But again a good entertainment or copyright lawyer.

Copyright owners and their publishers take this seriously. Many years ago I directed a production of Ibsen's The Wild Duck. I read many translations, including a version held by Samuel French. I used a different translation and got permission from the translator. After the production was over, I received a panicked call from a theatre in a nearby town. Samuel French had frozen rights to all of their works for the entire region, because they suspected that we had done their version of the play without permission. I had to prove that we used a different version before, they would release the right to a different play for a different small community theatre company in a different city. 

In 1989, Disney went so far as to issue a cease and desist order to several daycare centers in Florida, forcing them to take down murals of Disney characters. Universal/Hanna Barbera stepped in (in order to give Disney a black eye) and offered their cartoon characters (<nobr>Scooby-Doo,</nobr> the Flintstones, the Jetsons, and Yogi Bear) as a replacement.

These major companies have clipping services that track their properties across the world. And any infringement, no matter how small, may come under their scrutiny and become subject to action.

When the potential for loss of revenue is involved, the mouse grow fangs.

------------------------------
James Van Leishout
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2017 08:49
From: Myndee Washington
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

I recently had a discussion with a friend, who told me that their community theatre "found out" that all of those pesky copyright laws can be circumvented by using an ASCAP license. She told me that they didn't bother with the "no costume, no staging, song limiting" copyright rules anymore. Could someone please give me the correct legal points for this argument? Putting on a "review" is brought up, as a solution when money is tight or rights are not available and I always get put on the defensive, when I try to do what is legal. 

Please help me with an air tight answer to give.

About your last point about them not caring about high schools: When I was licensing music this past year for Texas' UIL One Act Play contest, I was told most rights holders just DON'T KNOW what to do about high schools asking for royalties because it happens so infrequently and rights holders usually don't care enough high school shows to pursue any action. My rep at Tresona said she was getting a lot of confused emails/phone calls about why she was bothering them with these requests, but they still took our money eventually. The only company this does not apply to is Disney. While they won't hunt down a high school using their music, they were very protective of their song use last year. They are very image conscious, and if they think a show will besmirch the Disney image they will reject your request.

------------------------------
RaMina Mirmortazavi
Deer Park High School
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-14-2017 10:43
From: Jeremy Riggs
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP


As a writer and composer, I have always been a strong supporter of copyright.  I just finished my first year as the solo theatre teacher of a rather large program and we had an interesting copyright story this last year..

When my students do sound designs for show, I required that all cues are either original or we have documentation of obtaining rights to perform.  I explain that while our ASCAP license covers pre, post and intermission music cues, any music that is uses as a cue within the show, is not covered.  

The show we were doing required a specific 1980s pop song to be played. I emailed the rights holder (a big music company) several times and had no response to my request.  Finally I called them and they literally laughed at me.  They said once every couple years they get a request like this.  I was told that high school productions aren't really worth their time.  The rep went on to say (though he said he would deny saying it), just use the piece like everyone else; the insinuation being "don't bother us with trivial stuff like this again." 

I was a little shocked to get this response.  I had licensed a similar song to use in a different show several years ago in a regional theatre and they charged us like $25/show. But to tell us they have no time to worry about licensing to high schools and to just use it because it is easier for them...  It was strange.  

We ended up using the song, the rep had given me verbal permission so I did it.

------------------------------
Jeremy Riggs
Director of Theatre
Blue Valley North
bvntheatre.org
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-13-2017 09:52
From: James Van Leishout
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

Here are two articles that might be of interest to you. They explain the background of the current copyright laws.

Mickey's Headed to the Public Domain! But Will He Go Quietly? - Office of Copyright
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/10/25/15-years-ago-congress-kept-mickey-mouse-out-of-the-public-domain-will-they-do-it-again/?utm_term=.4e51ef2f8862#comments

As far as ASCAP or BMI is concerned, they only cover songs when used individually. The copyright on a musical also covers the book and ASCAP/BMI have no authority to grant those rights. You might be able to use ASCAP/BMI  if you are doing a music revue that you are righting. But again a good entertainment or copyright lawyer.

Copyright owners and their publishers take this seriously. Many years ago I directed a production of Ibsen's The Wild Duck. I read many translations, including a version held by Samuel French. I used a different translation and got permission from the translator. After the production was over, I received a panicked call from a theatre in a nearby town. Samuel French had frozen rights to all of their works for the entire region, because they suspected that we had done their version of the play without permission. I had to prove that we used a different version before, they would release the right to a different play for a different small community theatre company in a different city. 

In 1989, Disney went so far as to issue a cease and desist order to several daycare centers in Florida, forcing them to take down murals of Disney characters. Universal/Hanna Barbera stepped in (in order to give Disney a black eye) and offered their cartoon characters (<nobr>Scooby-Doo,</nobr> the Flintstones, the Jetsons, and Yogi Bear) as a replacement.

These major companies have clipping services that track their properties across the world. And any infringement, no matter how small, may come under their scrutiny and become subject to action.

When the potential for loss of revenue is involved, the mouse grow fangs.

------------------------------
James Van Leishout
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2017 08:49
From: Myndee Washington
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

I recently had a discussion with a friend, who told me that their community theatre "found out" that all of those pesky copyright laws can be circumvented by using an ASCAP license. She told me that they didn't bother with the "no costume, no staging, song limiting" copyright rules anymore. Could someone please give me the correct legal points for this argument? Putting on a "review" is brought up, as a solution when money is tight or rights are not available and I always get put on the defensive, when I try to do what is legal. 

Please help me with an air tight answer to give.

CONCERTS AND RECITALS-BLANKET LICENSE AGREEMENT
Agreement between American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers
("ASCAP"), located at 2 Music Square West, Nashville, TN 37203 and...

(d) This license is limited to non-dramatic performances, and does not authorize any dramatic performances.
For purposes of this Agreement, a dramatic performance shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
(i) performance of a "dramatico-musical work" (as hereinafter defined) in its entirety;
(ii) performance of one or more musical compositions from a "dramatico-musical work" (as hereinafter
defined) accompanied by dialogue, pantomime, dance, stage action, or visual representation of the
work from which the music is taken;
(iii) performance of one or more musical compositions as part of a story or plot, whether accompanied or
unaccompanied by dialogue, pantomime, dance, stage action, or visual representation;
(iv) performance of a concert version of a "dramatico-musical work" (as hereinafter defined).

The term "dramatico-musical work" as used in this Agreement, shall include, but not be limited to, a musical
comedy, opera, play with music, revue, or ballet.

ASCAP blanket license (pdf)

------------------------------
Michael McDonough
TRW Director of Amateur Licensing
New York
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-17-2017 05:37
From: RaMina Mirmortazavi
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

About your last point about them not caring about high schools: When I was licensing music this past year for Texas' UIL One Act Play contest, I was told most rights holders just DON'T KNOW what to do about high schools asking for royalties because it happens so infrequently and rights holders usually don't care enough high school shows to pursue any action. My rep at Tresona said she was getting a lot of confused emails/phone calls about why she was bothering them with these requests, but they still took our money eventually. The only company this does not apply to is Disney. While they won't hunt down a high school using their music, they were very protective of their song use last year. They are very image conscious, and if they think a show will besmirch the Disney image they will reject your request.

------------------------------
RaMina Mirmortazavi
Deer Park High School
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-14-2017 10:43
From: Jeremy Riggs
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP


As a writer and composer, I have always been a strong supporter of copyright.  I just finished my first year as the solo theatre teacher of a rather large program and we had an interesting copyright story this last year..

When my students do sound designs for show, I required that all cues are either original or we have documentation of obtaining rights to perform.  I explain that while our ASCAP license covers pre, post and intermission music cues, any music that is uses as a cue within the show, is not covered.  

The show we were doing required a specific 1980s pop song to be played. I emailed the rights holder (a big music company) several times and had no response to my request.  Finally I called them and they literally laughed at me.  They said once every couple years they get a request like this.  I was told that high school productions aren't really worth their time.  The rep went on to say (though he said he would deny saying it), just use the piece like everyone else; the insinuation being "don't bother us with trivial stuff like this again." 

I was a little shocked to get this response.  I had licensed a similar song to use in a different show several years ago in a regional theatre and they charged us like $25/show. But to tell us they have no time to worry about licensing to high schools and to just use it because it is easier for them...  It was strange.  

We ended up using the song, the rep had given me verbal permission so I did it.

------------------------------
Jeremy Riggs
Director of Theatre
Blue Valley North
bvntheatre.org
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-13-2017 09:52
From: James Van Leishout
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

Here are two articles that might be of interest to you. They explain the background of the current copyright laws.

Mickey's Headed to the Public Domain! But Will He Go Quietly? - Office of Copyright
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/10/25/15-years-ago-congress-kept-mickey-mouse-out-of-the-public-domain-will-they-do-it-again/?utm_term=.4e51ef2f8862#comments

As far as ASCAP or BMI is concerned, they only cover songs when used individually. The copyright on a musical also covers the book and ASCAP/BMI have no authority to grant those rights. You might be able to use ASCAP/BMI  if you are doing a music revue that you are righting. But again a good entertainment or copyright lawyer.

Copyright owners and their publishers take this seriously. Many years ago I directed a production of Ibsen's The Wild Duck. I read many translations, including a version held by Samuel French. I used a different translation and got permission from the translator. After the production was over, I received a panicked call from a theatre in a nearby town. Samuel French had frozen rights to all of their works for the entire region, because they suspected that we had done their version of the play without permission. I had to prove that we used a different version before, they would release the right to a different play for a different small community theatre company in a different city. 

In 1989, Disney went so far as to issue a cease and desist order to several daycare centers in Florida, forcing them to take down murals of Disney characters. Universal/Hanna Barbera stepped in (in order to give Disney a black eye) and offered their cartoon characters (<nobr>Scooby-Doo,</nobr> the Flintstones, the Jetsons, and Yogi Bear) as a replacement.

These major companies have clipping services that track their properties across the world. And any infringement, no matter how small, may come under their scrutiny and become subject to action.

When the potential for loss of revenue is involved, the mouse grow fangs.

------------------------------
James Van Leishout
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-12-2017 08:49
From: Myndee Washington
Subject: Copyright vs. ASCAP

I recently had a discussion with a friend, who told me that their community theatre "found out" that all of those pesky copyright laws can be circumvented by using an ASCAP license. She told me that they didn't bother with the "no costume, no staging, song limiting" copyright rules anymore. Could someone please give me the correct legal points for this argument? Putting on a "review" is brought up, as a solution when money is tight or rights are not available and I always get put on the defensive, when I try to do what is legal. 

Please help me with an air tight answer to give.