Open Forum

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way. 

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Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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I don't know ... even back when The Music Man was new, wasn't the ladies' cultural ignorance part of the point of this bit?  Aren't we supposed to react along the lines of, "Oh, my gosh, I can't believe they're doing that!"  There must be a way to play that without making the musical itself seem insensitive or even racist.

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Jeff Grove
Theatre Teacher, Aesthetics Department Chair
Stanton College Preparatory School
Jacksonville FL
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2020 10:03
From: Amanda Fischer
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way.

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Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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​

I concur with Jeff on this one. It is a wonderful springboard for educational opportunities. We have come so far in such a short time. As a side note, we live on the border of a Native American reservation (Ute Tribe), our school mascot is the "Utes," we just did this production in 2018 and the scene was performed as Mr. Willson wrote it. I didn't hear a word of criticism (and that is rare). As a cast we had a number of great discussions on that subject and more.
It will be interesting to see how the scene is handled in the Fall when it is revived on Broadway. I love this show.

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Christopher Piner
Drama Teacher/director
Vernal UT
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-15-2020 08:31
From: Jeff Grove
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I don't know ... even back when The Music Man was new, wasn't the ladies' cultural ignorance part of the point of this bit?  Aren't we supposed to react along the lines of, "Oh, my gosh, I can't believe they're doing that!"  There must be a way to play that without making the musical itself seem insensitive or even racist.

------------------------------
Jeff Grove
Theatre Teacher, Aesthetics Department Chair
Stanton College Preparatory School
Jacksonville FL

Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2020 10:03
From: Amanda Fischer
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way.

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Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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​

In this review of a production they discuss how they changed the scene to George Washington crossing the Delaware. https://buffalotheatreguide.com/2018/08/13/theatre-review-the-music-man-at-the-stratford-festival/

So I'm guessing they got permission to change it. 

Worth checking into and please let us know what you find out from MTI because I was considering doing Music Man next year. 

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Amy Williams
District Librarian/Theater Teacher
Thespian Troupe #8881
Auburn High School
Auburn, IL
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2020 10:03
From: Amanda Fischer
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way.

------------------------------
Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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​

Original Message------

In this review of a production they discuss how they changed the scene to George Washington crossing the Delaware. https://buffalotheatreguide.com/2018/08/13/theatre-review-the-music-man-at-the-stratford-festival/

So I'm guessing they got permission to change it. 

Worth checking into and please let us know what you find out from MTI because I was considering doing Music Man next year. 

------------------------------
Amy Williams
District Librarian/Theater Teacher
Thespian Troupe #8881
Auburn High School
Auburn, IL
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We played the scene as written but no one wore feathers. Instead, the girls wore featherless headbands as a suggestion of the tradition.

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Sean Baldwin
Theatre Teacher
Herndon VA
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2020 10:03
From: Amanda Fischer
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way.

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Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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​

We are producing Music Man as well this spring.   Even my kids looked at me and said, "we're not going to do the Wan Tan Ye thing, right?"    I contacted MTI and my representative said to just replace it with any kind of patriotic tableau.  

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Mark Weissman
Staten Island NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2020 10:03
From: Amanda Fischer
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way.

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Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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​

First off, I love the Music Man (especially being from Iowa).  But I also think that we send a message to our students and community with what we program, and there are some messages I'm personally not willing to send, regardless of if anyone speaks up about it.  I think great discussion can be had, and if it can be changed to another patriotic tableau, that's what I would do.  Sometimes classics (aside from their great messages and wonderful writing) also have classic racism, sexism, and other forms of marginalization that we just pass off with "it's how it was" but at some point we need to stand back and say, let's talk about this context.  For example, Shapoopie is a great song, but it also haphazardly calls women hussies depending on which date they kiss on.  There is also the option of making a point in your program to address these contexts of when and where it was written and is not intended to be a reflection of the school's attitudes about these things, but just how (a) specific character(s) is/are.  As far as when is an explanation no longer a justification, you have to make that call for yourself depending on each production and how they cumulatively embody any particular value(s).  If you balance some of these classics with grittier pieces with feminist/socialism/antiracist or other social justice themes or sub-themes, I think the argument can be made that you're doing your best to really teach ethically.

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Cinnamon Kleeman
Durant IA
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-14-2020 10:03
From: Amanda Fischer
Subject: Wa Tan Ye in Music Man

I saw another post about this issue, and saw that a few people have found solutions to the issue of cultural insensitivity for the Wa Tan Ye girls, but the end result wasn't posted. @Cherie Firmin, I'd love ideas on how to tone things down in terms of the stereotypical Native American culture if at all possible. I saw that someone posted some articles, but they didn't really provide a visual that I could work with to give an alternative to a headdress... I did also email MTI, so we will see if I get an answer that way.

------------------------------
Amanda Fischer
Teacher
Grandville MI
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​