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Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

  • 1.  Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-11-2020 18:34
    After dealing with upset students & parents over the last four years, while dealing with rumors & lies about our selection process, I would like to invite or hire other professionals with no connection to our school to select the cast.  Any experience with this way of casting?  Pros/Cons?
    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

    Peace,
    Ms. Tracy Lynn Wagner
    Physical Education Teacher
    FPA Dramatic Director & Choreographer 
    International Thespian Society Troupe #8880 Director
    AV Coordinator/ AV Crew Director
    Student Council Moderator

    Lancaster Catholic High School

    650 Juliette Ave.
    Lancaster, PA 17601
    717-509-0315
    717-509-0312 (fax)




    Confidentiality Notice:

    This message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. Thank you.


  • 2.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-12-2020 13:26
    There will always be rumors and gossip about casting. Having a casting panel is a good idea, but the final decision should be yours.
    Billy Houck
    Theatre Teacher, retired
    Carmichael, CA





  • 3.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-12-2020 16:30
    I'm not a director or teacher, but I've seen a lot of similar issues discussed here over the past five years or so, and I really find it to be a pet peeve of mine that so often a school production is perceived as "the school play" instead of as part of the real training in a real class in a real school for a possible real career. From what I've read here repeatedly, too often parents and admins don't understand the difference.

    Auditions are part of acting: that's how you get cast. I would think that discussing how auditions work in the real world, and pointing out the realities, and how often you're one of several thousand people at a "cattle call" audition, and how actors prepare for auditions (including research on the characters if possible), and so on, would help people understand how this works. You're always going to have upset actors, but that happens in the real world too. And yes the director has the final say. Maybe showing a video on auditions, or how to audition -- anything to get them to see it as something other than "the school play" -- would help.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-12-2020 18:44
    Thanks for your feedback!  I do plan to be part of the process but having outside people help with auditions will make it feel more competitive, professional, and raise the bar to how they prepare.  I like the idea of having a workshop for students on audition techniques and it would be best to have someone who is a working actor/director to work with students.  I also want to create a document on cast selection as well.  I do have administration, alumni, & local community support that values the ARTS and see our program as an important academic program not just an extra-curricular activity.  Many students & even more parents however see it as lesser in value than our community theatre & regional theatres in my county.  Many students/parents involved see it as just the "school play" because participants don't receive an academic credit, we don't perform in an auditorium, and our budget is very minimal.  My goal is to change this mindset over time.  One reason why we have joined EdTA and now have a new ITS troupe is to change the opinions of our drama program from within.  We do have 2 classes taught during the school day but only have 30 students from the school involved in those classes.  We are a small 600 student community.   A real auditorium will be built in the next few years so we are working on elevating the program to stage some fantastic productions in our new space!

    ------------------------------
    Tracy Wagner
    Director & Choreographer for the Fine & Performing
    Lancaster Catholic High School
    Lancaster PA
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-13-2020 05:32
    I think we have all been in this position. A number of years ago, I invited any parent who wanted to be part of the casting process to attend. I let them them know they needed to be available for 2 days (3hours each) of the initial auditions. The call backs (4 hours)  and then needed to remain after callbacks until a cast list was complete (4, 5, 6 hours???)  They needed to come to a unanimous consensus with all involved. We,  the teachers would not intervene.  No one chose to take me up on the offer. 





  • 6.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-13-2020 11:09
    Tracy -

    If you really want to change the mindset over time, I'd suggest sliding the focus from "the arts" to "the entertainment industry." Sure it's "the arts," but too many people see "the arts" as a low priority when "money is so tight." Making it clear that acting could be an entry into the professional entertainment industry (which is not billed as "the arts"), and a real career, might get them to see it differently. 

    I find it fascinating that so many people outside the large metropolitan areas (and even in them), who only have access to non-professional theatre, have no conception of professional live theatre. They don't see major movie stars on the stage. They seem to have no conception of how many of their favorite movie stars started out in high school theatre. They can't see the connection between acting in high school and acting in a blockbuster movie.

    But they can certainly see the connection between playing in high school football and playing in the Super Bowl.

    People are not going to see these connections by osmosis. We are the only ones who can make them see those connections.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-14-2020 13:51
    Brilliant!!

    ------------------------------
    Tiersa Ferraro
    Drama Director
    Delafield WI
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-15-2020 11:04
    Thank you all for taking your time to give me thoughtful answers about the pros and cons about inviting outside professionals to cast your productions.  It is greatly appreciated!!  I truly enjoy the opportunity to have respectful and honest discussions about a topic with other school directors and professionals across the U.S.!  We face some challenging issues every day with students, parents, and sometimes within your own staff.  I will definitely not take my own power away by giving it completely to outside people (no matter how distinguished they are in their career).  Actually, my administration would not want me to as they respect my decisions.  Thankfully, thank have my back and give me full support.  But I do think inviting some other perspectives is helpful to me and my students.  I always use a panel of at least 3 people that are involved with the show - choreographer, music director, pit orchestra director, etc. 
    I think I will just have to accept that no matter how much I prepare and explain, there will always be someone who disagrees and is upset with the decisions that are made with casting.
    I do think providing a workshop on auditioning and the realities of casting is a great option for my school to help with facing rejection.  Thank you all for your wonderful feedback!!

    Peace,
    Ms. Tracy Lynn Wagner
    Physical Education Teacher
    FPA Dramatic Director & Choreographer 
    International Thespian Society Troupe #8880 Director
    AV Coordinator/ AV Crew Director
    Student Council Moderator

    Lancaster Catholic High School

    650 Juliette Ave.
    Lancaster, PA 17601
    717-509-0315
    717-509-0312 (fax)




    Confidentiality Notice:

    This message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. Thank you.





  • 9.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-14-2020 08:38
    We have recently been talking about the same thing.  The main thing would to be sure that these professionals have no connection to your students.  Lancaster is a bigger community than where I live now (I used to live in Strasburg and worked at Sight & Sound), but that would be my main point.  Most professionals in your community might be happy to volunteer, but be ready to offer a stipend or gift card for their time.  They should make notes separately from you and your directing/design team and offer their opinions later in the audition process.

    ------------------------------
    Tiersa Ferraro
    Drama Director
    Delafield WI
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-14-2020 10:52
    For several years, my own children attended the school where I teach and were involved in the theatre department. The music director and I would do the initial auditions and then use a panel of experts for the callback auditions. The hope was that no one could assume that I was unfair in my casting if one of my children received a role. However, there were still rumors even though I used expert panels doing the final lead casting for 10 years.

    ------------------------------
    Linda Gallant
    Theatre Teacher
    Lanexa VA
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-15-2020 07:08
    I may just be playing devil's advocate here--obviously everyone make choices that are right for their students, their school,  and their community, and an important part of teacher self-care is "choosing your battles."  But does anyone else have the feeling that bringing in outside "authorities" sends a bad message, as if "confessing" that teachers lack professional judgment.  Plus, I always get a little squicky about people being involved in casting that will not be a part of production because, ultimately, the director is the one who's going to have to work with the cast. (I feel this way even about community theatres that I have been associated with that have a casting committee.)  I wonder--I honestly don't know--is there a paradigm in the world of athletics where outsiders are brought in for team tryouts?  Or is the coach simply seen as the authority?  (Then again we all know the nonsense of how sports are seen as more objective somehow and theatre as more subjective.)  Tracy, I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do.  Just had to exorcise my nagging feeling as I read this thread.

    ------------------------------
    Ryan Moore
    Theatre Teacher and Forensics Coach
    Royal Oak MI
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-15-2020 07:47
    Ryan --

    That is a great point!!  We were hired to do a job and part of that job is casting a show.  Outside "professionals" brings with it a whole other host of problems.  We are the professionals!!  We as a team had been thinking about it, but there is no reason to cast off our professionalism and decision making process to someone who isn't really part of the process or end product.  I generally deflect casting criticism as what is best for the show and my (our) vision.  Try not to let a parent or parent group "bend your ear!"  And make sure someone has your back.  In my case, it is our principal.  I just stay out of all the Booster Club drama.  I don't want to hear it!

    ------------------------------
    Tiersa Ferraro
    Drama Director
    Delafield WI
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-15-2020 09:37
    Hi Ryan,

    I completely agree with you. I've made my share of casting mistakes over the course of my career in theatre, but I had no one to blame but myself. I can't see putting myself in the position of directing someone else's vision of the cast.

    From the other side of the issue, I have seen shows over the years where I sat in the audience and wondered why the director chose the particular actor. I didn't think the actor worked in the part. I would have chosen someone different. Of course, I wasn't in the room when the director made the casting choices so I don't know why it ended up that way. Would my choices have been better? Perhaps. Would they have worked for that directors vision? Perhaps, or perhaps not.

    I was very clear in my casting standards. I warned the students that every casting director has his / her biases. I even shared with the students some of my casting biases that I was aware of and worked to avoid. (and let them know there might be some of which I was not aware) I was very clear with both students and parents that, while I really appreciated the parent's contributions to the boosters, those contributions would have no impact on casting. I never precast any part for any production. (The handfull of times that I had a specific student in mind for a specific part, it somehow came out that that student never got that part after the auditions.) I have had students both grateful and angry with me. I have had parents both grateful and angry with me. I'm sure many have second guessed me, but I think, ultimately, we all respected each other in the artistic process and understood that the process is subjective no matter who is making the decisions.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Smith
    VA Co-Chapter Director
    Retired
    Centreville VA
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Inviting outside professionals to cast your show

    Posted 01-15-2020 10:40
    Ryan's comment about sports coaches (IMHO, anyway) is right on the button. I've suggested here, several times, that drama teachers meet the coaches and pick their brains about some of these issues. Chances are you all have more in common than you imagine. 

    Let me repeat that: chances are you all have more in common than you imagine.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net
    ------------------------------