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  • 1.  Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-07-2014 10:10
    I know this is an age old question folks, but does anyone have any fresh ideas about convincing parents and counselors that theatre is useful and important for learning?  We are a college prep school and many of the students are taking 3-5 AP courses per year just to inflate their GPA, so they can get into college.  One parent even said, "Why would you take theatre class again when you could be taking an AP course?"

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    Dawn Hoy

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  • 2.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-07-2014 10:53
    I've run into a similiar situation for different reasons. In my case the students want to take the class but feel like they can't afford to becuase of the effect it will have on their G.P.A. and overall standing in the class. In spite of that almost all of my advanced kids are AP students.

    Something I promise my students is, that after taking a beginning theatre course, they will receive higher grades for presentations in their academic classes. After rolling around on the ground throwing a temper tantrum it's really easy to present factual information from a standing position. ;)

    Another point to make is that theatre trains students for real life. They are expected to collaborate with a variety of personalities (whether they care for the others personally or not), the need to handle unexpected situations immediately is expereinced (how many times have we watched something happen onstage in front of an audience and been proud of how professionally our kids handle the situation?), the ablility to understood when speaking (both in front of others and in general), and the reality that being an artist makes you a well rounded cultured individual.

    In terms of the parents not understanding the importance of the arts... how many of them enjoy listening to music, looking at paintings/sculputures, watching movies (or *gasp* a play), or any other number of the relaxing hobbies we enjoy. If every student or parent gave up the arts "when you could be taking an AP class" what would be left to showcase our humanity? We aren't simply machines. A love of art and performance is in our blood. Would they really want to remove that from their children?

    I saw this article a while ago. Hopefully it can provide some other reasons as well.
    http://changeagent.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/9-ways-a-theatre-degree-trumps-a-business
    -degree/


    I hope this help. :)

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    Shira Schwartz
    Chandler Unified School District


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  • 3.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-08-2014 10:20

    First off, let me give hearty "Hear, hear!" to Shira's reply. A few other thoughts:

    1. Colleges are fully aware of kids who grade-grub. They look for balance. Theatre is that balance. 

    2. The idea that theatre is a GPA-vampire doesn't hold up to scrutiny. My troupe of 19 has a cumulative 3.49, with 8 members holding 4.0. Last year's Valedictorian was an Honor Thespian (and my daughter!)

    3. The ability to work with a disparate group of people toward a unified goal. Problem solving. Time management. Project management. Budgeting. 

    4. Here's what I tell prospective parents: Whether your goal is to be a performer, CEO, preacher, at-home-parent, firefighter, bricklayer, sales professional, or wherever your road takes you, there is one immutable truth: at some point in your life, you will have to stand in front of another human being and convince them of something. That's where drama comes in.

    5. Part of success in life is the ability to read people. The character study work we do with fictional characters helps prepare us for understanding the motivations of people we encounter. 

    Orson Welles once said (paraphrasing):"If you want to understand human nature, all you need to read is Shakespeare and the Bible."  And from an academic standpoint, Willy S. invented over 1700 English words. That'll pump up your SAT.

    http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.html

    Scott

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    Scott Piehler
    Drama Director

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  • 4.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-08-2014 09:58
    We had a speaker at one of our county arts meetings once who was on the board of admissions for the UNC Chapel Hill medical school. He told us that part of the admissions process involves assigning points to various aspects of the applications, including undergraduate degree area--different subject areas get different points. The undergraduate majors that received the highest points for med school admission? Arts majors. Not biology, chemistry or math like you might expect. Because an arts major is a cooperative, creative and analytical thinker. This is what I tell parents and students--if med schools think that way so do colleges and universities when looking at high school transcripts. Colleges focus more on unweighted GPA anyway since every district weights differently. And they like to see commitment to to an elective that lasts for four years and includes advanced levels of that discipline. Twelve AP classes no longer makes someone stand out, but four years of theatre might. ------------------------------------------- Robin Clayton -------------------------------------------


  • 5.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-09-2014 12:18
    All of what's posted has been fascinating, but of course it would be helpful to have the data to back it up.  Has any college ever posted what they look at when they review transcripts?  I have students who are dropping my drama classes the 4th year to do the AP classes and such, it would be great if anyone can help!

    Glen Carpenter
    Stansbury High School


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    Glen Carpenter

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  • 6.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-10-2014 08:02
    A study done by MENC in1999 showed that among the arts, directing scenes and plays increased SAT SCORES the most. So we started doing senior directed one act play festival. We started with 2 seniors and just finished with 16. The scope of the project enables the senior to enact their personal vision of their choice of one act. Teacher acts as producer, with final say. Each student receives sufficient funds which vary from year to year. All seniors are required to be at all performances, whether to do tech or Foh. They create the show portfolio, the publicity, the rehearsal schedules, etc. With creative problem solving high on colleges and technical colleges list of desired applicants, this performance project has served many students in the application process. When the guidance department receives feedback from colleges, they schedule theatre IVhonors so that it will not conflict with too many AP classes. Theatre is math and English in motion. The portfolio students often take to interviews. That was the tipping point for a student lady year when she interviewed at Brown. Several helpful Teaching theatre articles on prompt books and lesson plans on this subject can be found in archives. ------------------------------------------- Jeanette Arvay-Beck -------------------------------------------


  • 7.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-11-2014 12:20
    I'd like to reply first to the MENC SAT scores article, which I have referenced in my college teaching since its publication. But I reference it with quite a large grain of salt. Just looking at the higher SAT scores is not enough - there is a major, unmeasured variable that must be considered, which falls into the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" realm: that is, we don't know whether those higher SAT-scoring theatre (and other arts) students got those scores because of being in the arts, or whether students who are in the arts are the kinds of students who get higher SAT scores.  So I think it is not that productive to simply quote the stats as if to imply that if a child is involved in the arts h/she is likely to score higher on the SAT. 

    That said, there is a ton of research, largely overlooked by education powers, I am distressed to say, that tells us that when students participate in the arts both in school and outside of school, they learn better, feel better about themselves, and have more empathy towards others.  This is in direct conflict with the current "Race to Nowhere" (see the film if you haven't already) mindset of damning critical thinking in favor of testing, testing, testing. From my vantage point, sadly, I don't see any of that changing in the near future. 

    Which brings me to my next reply: my vantage point: I am a musician, with 35+ years as a teacher in singing, theatre, classroom music pre-K through adults, and an array of other arts-related "hats" that I wear. My newest hat these past ten years, is that of an Independent Education Consultant, working with high school students on their college search and application processes. Part of my preparation for this career was taking a Certificate in College Admissions through UCLA. Calling on my experiences through the years, I specialize in working with performing arts students. There are many myths that float around,dealing with whether to take arts courses in favor of AP's, IB's, and such.  There are no black and white, hard, cold answers to that conundrum.

    The fact is that there are schools that want to see that students have taken "the most rigorous academic program" (a phrase used by many colleges) that is offered in a student's high school.  There are many factors, as in that "points system" noted on this post, that are taken into account. One course in and of itself, may or may not be a deal-breaker, depending on the colleges the student is applying to. Students have to try to create a carefully balanced picture of themselves, especially if they are applying to really highly selective schools, such as the Ivies or co-Ivies, such as Duke or Stanford.  For those kinds of schools a student would be much better off taking and ace-ing huge numbers of high academic courses, including 4 years of Foreign Language, yet also showing, in extra-curriculars (or by giving up sleep or lunch periods!)  strong interest in a few focus areas, plus of course gobs of time in community service activities (which could certainly be theater or arts-based) and basically looking like Superman. And even those accomplishments are no guarantee of admission. 

    In schools that are less competitive (which is about 90% of the rest of the schools in this country) a student does need to show academic prowess but does not need to show that level of all-academics-all-the-time, and can perhaps make other choices of courses that would include high level arts courses. College admissions reps have said time and time again that they are more concerned with unweighted GPA's but often look at both weighted and unweighted, and sometimes even recalculate a student's GPA in their own model, for comparison.  

    Students who are arts/humanities-bound in college can possibly get away with taking HS courses that align more closely with their artistic and career goals. These students should look at applying to schools that will value their interests and use a more holistic admission process. 

    And yes, I agree, med schools nowadays are very interested in students who have arts backgrounds, but not to the exclusion of the bio, chem and other science/math pre-requisites. 
    Students, teachers and counselors don't always understand  this "dance of the college application" process, hence the myths and confusion. But it is a confusing process, no doubt, and puts huge pressure on everyone. 
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    Amy Goldin
    COPA, Inc.: College Options in the Performing Arts
    www.performingartsoptions.com 


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  • 8.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-09-2014 20:14

    If you've never read John Dewey's Art as Experience, I would highly recommend that you do. It's the most valuable book on the value of aesthetics in education that I've ever read, and it will provide you with extraordinarily good reasons to push for more art in our kid's experiences.  
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    Mark Haynes
    Teacher/Drama Director
    Saint Anthony School


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  • 9.  RE:Changing a mindset

    Posted 03-10-2014 08:39
    Don't forget about the many resources in the Advocacy section of this website, specifically the "Did you know?" ads and fact sheet.


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    Ginny Butsch
    Community Manager
    Educational Theatre Association


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