Open Forum

 View Only

Help with a prop gun

  • 1.  Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-01-2016 10:05

    Hi all, I am hoping someone can help me with this. In the summer, I have a theatre company that let's me produce some of the work that I can't produce in a school environment. We are going into our 11th year and this summer are doing John Klovenbach's "On An Average Day" (I get to act in this one!). The script calls for a gun, which is fired a couple of times, and which we also see one of the characters take the bullets out of. Obviously, if need be we can use a sound effect, but we need a fake gun, with removable bullets. Having trouble finding that. I used one once (in 95) that had fake wooden bullets, could be loaded and unloaded, and actually had a cap in the back of the bullets so could also be shot and produce the sound on stage. This would be ideal, but I have no idea where to find it. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

    Jeff

    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Davis
    Plainsboro NJ
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-01-2016 10:13

    I have a place here in KC that has "real" guns sealed over that still takes empty shells or blanks. Makes a great "bang" sound (really loud) and then drops the shell on the floor. You can load like a real gun but it is completely safe. No wadding being expelled from barrel. The barrel is sealed shut. Here is the address and phone number from the place. They do a ton of film and theatre work across the midwest. 

    Have Guns, Will Rent

    Address: 1313 State Ave, Kansas City, KS 66102
    Phone:(913) 321-4867

    Hope this helps.

    Dan Schmidt

    BVSW Theatre Director, Overland Park, Kansas.

    ------------------------------
    Dan Schmidt
    Theatre Director
    USD 229
    Prairie Village KS



  • 3.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-01-2016 12:01

    For a number of years we used Weapons of Choice in Napa, CA. They have a huge selection, ship all over the country, and are very conscious of safety and complying with local regs. Their web site, www.weaponsofchoice.com, also has a lot of information on weapon history, handling, safety, and so on. All their weapons are either non-firing props or blank-firing guns and come with safety instructions and other materials. They do not handle any "converted" real weapons.

    I don't know if they do anymore, but at one time they also had a separate web site URL and business name that they used when working with schools. The guy told me it was just because some schools don't allow internet access to weapons sites and similar things. They are also very discreet when shipping.

    If I were still involved with props, I'd still be using them.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net



  • 4.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-02-2016 09:45
    I second the recommendation for Weapons of Choice!  We have used them multiple times for guns, swords and knives when the script calls for a more realistic looking prop or when we have to fire a gun in a show.

    Julie Estrada, MEd.
    Theatre Director
    Windsor High School Theatre
    1100 West Main Street
    Windsor, CO 80550
    NOTE the change in email address as of 12/2/2015:





  • 5.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-02-2016 09:28

    Starter pistols/revolvers are a cost effective solution.  My local firearms dealer keeps a couple in stock.  They have filled barrels and run around $100.  Blanks are inexpensive.  Makes an authentic bang!

    ------------------------------
    Charles McHugh
    Theatre Teacher
    Stratford High School



  • 6.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-02-2016 10:24
    My husband is a track starter.  We have used his gun in a production when we needed an authentic look/sound.  You might talk to your local track starter types and see if they have any old guns or one you could rent/borrow.

    Thanks,
    Lisa Ronca
    Ballard High School
    701 Ballard Drive
    Huxley, IA 50124
    (515) 597-2971 ext. 2178





  • 7.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-02-2016 16:19

    I can't help but feel that Eric Friend needs to add his voice to this discussion, as I'm sure there are very real practical safety issues and that having a live starter pistol on stage might be an absolute no no....I also think, if I recall, that the trigger has to be glued solid, so that it won't move, as another safety measure. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

    ------------------------------
    Phillip Goodchild
    Theatre Arts Instructor/Assistant Department Head of English
    Ruskin FL



  • 8.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-03-2016 08:43

    Hi Phillip,

    I have taken the SAFD course for gun safety on the stage. I don't know about any local regulations, but otherwise your information is incorrect. There are very strict safety standards, but I have been utilizing blank firing props for decades without issue. They are much more realistic and, as long as handled properly, safe. Also, you never have to worry about the coordination of the look with the sound cue. (That one drives me nuts.)

    I also second Weapons of Choice. My son is in a production of Three Musketeers (currently running) and I bought a rapier from them for his birthday. He's really excited to be able to use his own blade during the production. The blade is very high quality and reasonably priced.

    Regards,

    Bob

    ------------------------------
    Robert Smith
    VA Co-Chapter Director
    James Madison High School
    Vienna VA



  • 9.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-03-2016 09:22

    I think weapons of choice is excellent for stage guns, They have a solid product base, quick delivery, and a lot of variety in their offerings. However, I have found that for swords Zen Warrior and Rogue Steel are MUCH better quality than weapons of choice.  I have owned and handled weapons from many of the major distributors, and those two companies are my top choices.

    ------------------------------
    [Jordan] [Love]
    [Director of Theatre]
    [Bettye Myers Middle School]
    [Denton] [TX]



  • 10.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-03-2016 09:15

    Before I started teaching, I worked for years as an stunt coordinator, fight director, and armourer for film and theatre.  Over the years I advised many theatre and film productions on all types of weapons; blades, poles and firearms.  I will address theatre specifically.

    When talking to clients who wanted to use firearms, I told them that there are a lot of options out there and it really depends on the show and the effect needed.   Firearms fall into several categories.  The most common are: prop (working/not), blank (sealed/open), and percussion.  All of them have their place in theatre.

    Prop firearms are weapons that absolutely cannot be made to fire.  Some of them have no working/moving parts. These are great if an actor just needs to hold a weapon, but not pull a trigger, activate a slide/bolt. or set a hammer.   Working props have functioning parts, but no firing mechanism.  The hammer will set, the trigger will pull, etc.  These are great if the actor needs to interact with the weapon or if you need a weapon but your venue does not allow blanks.

    Blank weapons are working firearms that will accept blank cartridges.  There are two kinds.  There are sealed and open.  The sealed type, the absolutely safest for stage, vent all gasses out the side of top of the weapon. because of the venting, there is usually a limited muzzle flash and not a lot of smoke.  Depending on the type and load of the cartridge, the report can range from a pop to a very loud bang.  The open type of blank weapon, does not have a blocked barrel.  These are great when you need a muzzle flash, and if you use blanks that are loaded with Black Powder, you will get that lovely puff of smoke and smell that the audience will associate with gunpowder.  Since the gasses are expelled through the barrels, this type should NEVER be used in close proximity to the audience or other actors.  

    The last type is percussion.  These are wonderful and I have used them on many shows.  These are specifically black powder (think muzzle loading / civil war type) weapons.  They have a lovely, deep report, a bright flash and smoke.  Once again, since there are gasses escaping the muzzle, care must be taken as to where the weapon is pointed and fired.

    I do not believe that theatres should only use non-firing, blocked weapons.  I believe that all of these firearms have a place in theatre, depending on the show and desired effect.  The REAL key is training, training, training.  Having an experienced armourer (just like using an experienced fight choreographer for stage combat) is important.  They will know how to teach the actors to deal with the chosen weapons.  They will know how to care for and use the weapons.  Most importantly, they will teach how to be respectful of the weapons and use them safely every time.

    Now to the recommendation, if you need a weapon that can accept what the audience sees as live rounds, and fire, I would use a blank firing, closed barrel firearm.  You can get revolvers or automatic style pistols that will accept blank cartridges.  If there is significant time between the time you need to see the cartridges and when the weapon has to fire, I would use dummy cartridges (look like the real thing but are 100% inert), then reload for blanks when needed.  If there is not significant time between, the blanks will be fine, although blanks look a bit different, so if the venue is very intimate, the audience may notice the difference (30 foot rule).  

    Over all, whether using dummies or not, ensure the actor knows how to safely handle the firearm.  Even with closed barrel weapons, it is still possible to get injured.  If available, find an expert to work with the actor, even if for just an hour. It will increase the honesty of the character and safety of the actor(s) exponentially. 

    ------------------------------
    Jeremy Riggs
    Theatre Teacher
    Olathe South High School
    Olathe KS



  • 11.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-08-2016 21:13

    A recent thread about prop guns on this forum:

    https://www.schooltheatre.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=133&MID=17992&tab=digestviewer

    ------------------------------
    Erich Friend
    Theatre Consultant
    Teqniqal Systems



  • 12.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-03-2016 13:10

    Jeremy is right on the button, especially as to safety and training.

    I used to work with a theatre that seemed to use weapons about once a year (To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, and others). At every one of these, I trained the actors on how to use the (blank-firing) guns, but I also did a brief demo and safety briefing for the entire cast and crew and told them our in-house rules.

    One of the rules was that guns would go directly from offstage storage to the deck captain to the actor who used it, then back to the deck captain and back to storage. They were never to be left unattended.

    Another rule was "If you're not the actor using the gun, look all you want, but don't touch."

    Since I was the prop master at the time, I did all the checking, cleaning, testing, loading, and so forth, myself. I also made up a couple of red tags that said "LOADED" and hooked them onto the trigger guard when the guns were loaded.

    It sounds like a lot, but we wanted to make absolutely sure there were no problems, and we never had any.

    ------------------------------
    George F. Ledo
    Set designer
    www.setdesignandtech.wordpress.com
    www.georgefledo.net



  • 13.  RE: Help with a prop gun

    Posted 05-04-2016 07:17

    THANK YOU!! Thanks to everyone who replied, I knew this was the place to ask. 

    Jeff

    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Davis
    Plainsboro NJ