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replacing stage floor

  • 1.  replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-27-2016 09:52

    Our school has the opportunity to make repairs throughout the building and I'm advocating some work be done on our stage. Specifically, the floor is just white tile and cracking horribly. It is in desperate need of replacement and this may be my chance to make it happen. Question is, what kind of flooring do I look at?  Best case scenario, I can redo the entire stage and tear up the tile completely. Worst case, I have to use whatever replacement tiles we can get. Suggestions? Where should I start?  What material would be best?  What could be more modest and attainable?  What companies are out there? Thanks in advance for the advice.

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    Elizabeth Phillips
    teacher/director
    Memphis Community Schools
    Memphis MI
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  • 2.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-27-2016 16:11

    Masonite creates a service that is durable and can be painted. Do not put a fancy hardwood floor that the school will be proud of, because you will have to have that floor for all your plays. Or, maybe see if you can get Marley or other vinyl flooring that you can store between uses.

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    Susan Davis
    Teacher
    Napa Valley Unified School District
    Napa CA



  • 3.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-28-2016 08:07

    Following up on Elizabeth's question, I would also like to replace the flooring of our stage sometime in the next year. It was professionally done at some point before I was hired (I'm in my third year now), but the black material has bubbled up in places, and is quite worn in general. How do I go about finding out what kind of material is on the floor now, and what options there are to replace it? How do I know whether the floor below the black material is a sprung floor, etc?

    I may have the funding support at some point to do a decent job on getting new fooring put in, but I know so little about the topic that I'm a bit overwhelmed as to where to start.

    Thanks for any suggestions!

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    Scott Harris
    Theatre Director
    Mamaroneck NY



  • 4.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-28-2016 08:20

    Scott,

    You might look at having the floor refinished: sanded and a new color put down. It might be easier than a new floor and the school system might do it "in-house". We had our floor sanded and a darker brown stain put down and our school system had people that usually did gym floors come in and do our stage deck.

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    John Perry
    Drama Instructor
    Atherton High School
    Louisville KY



  • 5.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-28-2016 08:36

    We have had a Masonite floor for 15 years with 3/4" plywood underneath. Minimal problems, maximum usability! You can paint it, and screw into it. Just beginning to show some minimal wear. Cost effective to replace! Unscrew a 4'X8' sheet. Replace. We are outside Flint (water is fine!) if you would like to come look at it.

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    Michael Hamilton
    Director/Auditorium Manager
    Flushing Community Schools
    Flushing MI



  • 6.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-28-2016 11:00

    Thank you for all of the guidance. Looks like Masonite is something to investigate. Thanks Susan and Michael. 

    ------------------------------
    Elizabeth Phillips
    teacher/director
    Memphis Community Schools
    Memphis MI



  • 7.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-29-2016 07:31
    Best install system:
    1/4" Masonite.1/8" Gap between panels to accommodate swell (redundant here in CO because it is so dry)
    3 layers of 3/4" plywood, alternating direction with each layer.
    This allows you to screw in to the floor.
    What's beneath the current tile would determine how it fits.

    Scott Hasbrouck
    George Washington HS
    Denver, CO

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 8.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-28-2016 12:18

    If you have a tile (VCT ?) floor it is likely that it is on a concrete slab base (correct me if I'm wrong), so this means that the floor has no resilience at all.  This is very harmful to the performers joints and dental work (you crash your teeth together and can chip enamel when you dance or jump up and down).  A soft floor cover like some of the padded vinyl surfaces they sell for practice gyms is generally NOT appropriate for stages because the scenery, platform legs, casters, and other point-loads damage the surface quickly.  A properly sprung stage floor is designed to absorb the impacts from aggressive activity like dance and fight choreography while presenting a solid monolithic surface that will allow castered objects to move smoothly across them.

    Some people will recommend a 'Masonite' floor deck (also sometimes referred to as 'meso'), however, Masonite Corporation has not made floor decking for over twenty years, and when they did, it was the "Duron WR" that was the good stuff used on professional stages.  The current material nomenclature is 'Tempered Hardboard' (HB) and it come in five ANSI grades (Ref: ANSI A135.4-2004).  The really cheap stuff they sell at the big-box hardware stores is the worst grade (5 - Industrialite), and it swells-up and flakes apart when it gets wet, so it doesn't last too long on most stage floors and is a poor investment.

    Buying the good stuff (Grade 1 or 2) requires some planning, as it must be special ordered.  Sierra Pine makes a product called Medite II that is very good Grade 2 hardboard.  You typically want a 1/4" thickness product.

    Simply laying a sheet of hardboard on top of a concrete floor is not a preferred solution, as it does not provide any resilience for the performers.  However, building-up a floor to have a suspension and staggered layers of underlayment can create a floor that is about 4" thick, so it may affect how the transition from the adjacent rooms to the stage is accomplished.  The 2010 ADA requires 1:12 ramp for this type of transition, so this means you need a about a 4 foot long ramp to make the elevation change meet building code.

    There are some shallower solutions, but most of them fail to maintain a good level surface when presented with point loads.  The build-up of the various floor layers and the final finish is all important, so so a project like this may require the involvement of a Theatre Consultant and and Architect to fully satisfy all of the design requirements and produce a set of documents that the School can put out for bids.  Simply asking a bunch of contractors for a 'stage floor' will get you ten different responses and evaluating the merits of each would be difficult.  Schools tend to buy the cheapest thing offered without any regard as to whether it meets the actual needs of the end users, so this is why I recommend doing it right and getting a proper deign in place so all of the contractors are bidding on the same thing.

    If your administration balks at this potential cost, remind them of the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spend on the acres of gymnasium, weight room, and athletic fields.  A few thousand square feet of stage floor is inconsequential in that regard, and the protection of the performing arts students bodies is every bit as important as it is for the athletes.

    (Insert shameless plug here)  We can provide this type if design service if you are interested.

    ------------------------------
    Erich Friend
    Theatre Consultant
    Teqniqal Systems



  • 9.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 01-28-2016 22:15

    I agree with Erich about 90%.  A sprung floor is way better for your artists than covering a solid floor, and there are many floor solutions out there, but I do think he is a little hard on the hardboard (no pun intended), so I will come to its defense.  In my experience as a TD of 30+ years, a true "theatre" floor will see not only the feet of the artists, but casters, platform legs, sawhorses, and the random tools and fasteners used to build and rebuild the magical place where we tell our stories.  If the space is making art, it WILL get used and abused.

    Consequently, my money has always gone to the hardboard solution.  It is not very expensive, can be painted dozens of times, looks great, takes abuse, and a piece can be obtained locally and replaced by your students quickly and easily. The consultant for our new black box space tried to convince our architect to use a more expensive "professional" product for the floor, but once I demonstrated the level of difficulty and expense of replacing just one panel, it was a no-brainer to go with hardboard.

    In the end, pick the floor that will serve your space the best.  That may be a manufactured solution, or it may be something more along the hardboard line.

    All my best :-).

    ------------------------------
    Tracy Nunnally
    NIU - Professor/TD/Area Head
    Vertigo - Owner/System Designer
    ETCP Certified Rigger/Trainer
    DeKalb, Illinois



  • 10.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 03-01-2016 12:45

    Has anyone heard of polyonyx+ ?  It is a new polymer product that is being marketed.  I have looked at the specs, but I can't find it on any forums or any reviews.

    http://polyonyx.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/polyonyxR_datasheet4.pdf

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    Tom Beckett
    Portland OR



  • 11.  RE: replacing stage floor

    Posted 03-19-2016 11:30

    I'm here at USITT in Salt Lake City and I looked-over the product you mentioned.  My impression is thus:

    • The product has a bit of a sheen to it that some may find distracting.
    • The the fine grooves in the textured anti-slip surface it has would probably make removing any paint you might spill or deliberately apply to it almost impossible to remove.  This is not a problem if you always use a drop cloth or floor cover before you paint, but I have observed that this is not a common practice in High School Theatre.
    • It is expensive, even when compared to high quality ANSI grade 1 or 2 Hardboard (HB).
    • The material strength is difficult to compare to ANSI grade 1 or 2 Tempered Hardboard (HB) as the tests quoted are not the same as those published for the Tempered Hardboard.  I think the 'product comparison' on the data sheet is disingenuous as it only compares it to materials that don't make good stage floors to begin with.
    • It is a plastic material, so if there is a fire it will very likely generate some pretty toxic and dense smoke.
    • They talk about the "screw pull-out strength", but this id for thick samples and not for the typical 1/4" thickness used for a sacrificial stage floor top layer -- pull-out strength is more dependent upon the under-decking materials than the top sacrificial surface of a stage, so it is a fairly meaningless number.  For the most part, you should be using improved stage screws that set a machined insert into the under-decking, or you should be using bags filled with stainless steel shot to hold things in place.  Anything that you screw into only the top 1/4" of a stage floor is bound to pull-out or pull the decking loose from the under-decking.

    Despite the negative impressions I have mentioned above, I might consider it for the top decking on an outdoor stage due to it's moisture resistance, but I would have to find-out more about it's long-term UV resistance before making that determination.

    Get a sample and compare it to samples of the other flooring materials you might use.

    ------------------------------
    Erich Friend
    Theatre Consultant
    Teqniqal Systems